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quick advice wanted


dachero

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Hello,

first, i'm from belgium and please excuse me for my bad english

i read already a few months here as a guest;

Now i have registrated myself because i have a serious dilemma:

i've owned a Lotus elise mk2 that i have sold last week .

Now i'm looking for a Esprit;

Today my friends and i have been looking for a Esprit S4s

The car has some scratches and other minor problems.

The car has 140000 km = approx 80000 miles;

The engine has been revised in 2005.

a few weeks ago the owner has taken his car for a ride and immediatly at very low speed the timebelt has snapped. Car dead and pushed it home;

My question knowing that i'm no mechanic: should i buy this car?

The owner agreed with me that if i buy the car in it's current state ; -10000 euro discount!

can i do a good deal if i buy it and let a garage restore the engine?

Cost 1000-3000-5000-8000 euro????? I do'nt know????????

if i can get it fixed for less then 6000 euro;then i do a nice deal?

Is the kilometerage not to high?

A lot of questions,i know; If some-one can advise me i'm all ears

Edited by dachero
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thank you Paul;

the car has only two previous owners with complete history ; The oil-changes and services has been executed on time;

Recent new suspension and brakes;

The owner has bad luck.

Lhd are more expensive here in Belgium;

If i rebuild the engine and the costs are reasonable then i can make a good deal!

But can the high kilometrage be a problem?

merry christmas to

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A difficult question. A snapped cambelt can mean the engine has a set of bent valves and stressed pistons and conrods....or it might have survived and just need a new timing belt. eBay has replacement engines for £1500 to £2500. Rebuilding an engine with a broken cambelt could cost anything you want to pay, depending on who does it and what you decide to change....once the engine is in pieces it would be reasonable to change everything that 80, 000 miles would have worn. Crankshaft bearing shells, maybe pistons and liners, water pump....labour....€6000 would probably cover it, depending on the labour costs. I would be wary of allowing anyone without the necessary Lotus experience to work on the machinery; these days, few mechanics have experience of rebuilding engines at component level. Owning and running an Esprit without doing your own maintenance and mechanics is always going to be expensive! Welcome to the Asylum.....(!)

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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the car has only two previous owners with complete history ; The oil-changes and services has been executed on time;

Recent new suspension and brakes;

The owner has bad luck.

Two ways to look at this...

If all the services had been done on time/schedule then it is indeed truely bad luck that the belt has snapped. I've never heard of a snapped belt on a car with the belt changed every two years (as per the schedule). So just maybe services haven't actually been done on time?

If you dont buy the car and get it fixed to your satisfaction, then the owner is likely to have to get it fixed and will do so in the cheapest way he can do it. At the end of that process it will be back on the market with no "history" of a snapped belt, just another impressive spend on keeping the engine in tip top shape. How would you feel about it then - if you didn't really know what had happened.

So overall I dont think you should look at this as an opportunity to pick up an S4s cheap. Its an opportunity to pick up an S4s and have some real knowledge about the state of the engine and some confidence that you have had it (re) built to a high standard. IMHO You wont be "saving" any of the 10k Euro.

One of the best Esprits there is tho - so definitely worth serious consideration!

Loving Lionel and Eleanor......missing Charlie and Sonny

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Two ways to look at this...

If all the services had been done on time/schedule then it is indeed truely bad luck that the belt has snapped. I've never heard of a snapped belt on a car with the belt changed every two years (as per the schedule). So just maybe services haven't actually been done on time?

If you dont buy the car and get it fixed to your satisfaction, then the owner is likely to have to get it fixed and will do so in the cheapest way he can do it. At the end of that process it will be back on the market with no "history" of a snapped belt, just another impressive spend on keeping the engine in tip top shape. How would you feel about it then - if you didn't really know what had happened.

So overall I dont think you should look at this as an opportunity to pick up an S4s cheap. Its an opportunity to pick up an S4s and have some real knowledge about the state of the engine and some confidence that you have had it (re) built to a high standard. IMHO You wont be "saving" any of the 10k Euro.

One of the best Esprits there is tho - so definitely worth serious consideration!

ok. That's what i'm thinking to.If i buy this car with the 10000 euro discount and i let it fixed to my standards then i know what has been done and is the car back in good shape. But i have at this moment not a clue how much this gonna coast me? And if fix the motor,for let us say 6000 €, then the car is back in shape hopefully ,but he has still the high kilometrage.Now at this moment i can't do a test-drive

so i don't know how the driving is. Clutch,steering,handling after high kilometrage? All mystery to me,only the opinion from the owner.

I tink the best solution is to make a low offer and if the owner wants more,simply turn around and walk away altough the great looks of the car

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update: i've told that the timebelt has snapped, what is not exactly right;

The owner went off for a ride and the engine stopped. After inspection the owner noticed that on the timebelt 3 or 4 thoots were missing. Then he has cut the timebelt in half to inspect it properly and noticed the missing thoots

I think it doesn't make any difference

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I'd walk away. It's possibly worth more if you threw the engine in the sea and sold what's left for parts?

Plus, all the running gear, plumming, pumps, radiators, exhaust, gearbox, clutch, brakes, suspension, bushes, hubs, bearings, heater, aircon, chargecooler, turbo, seats, motors, tanks...

...Will all be as tired as the mileage, yet you will not be able to test many of them.

If you were given (for free) a busted, high miler Esprit for free, it has the worse case possibility of costing as much as a good car to put right.

Of course, if you don't want a car you can drive, and you can do all the work, have the funds and want a project then it would be good fun as something to do.

:)

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Today , after days off thinking and evaluating and calling experts and checking the invoices of the car,considering the high kilometrage and the troubles with the engine : i have bought the car for a good price.

I have had advice from persons that knew this car very,very good!

In the last 4 years only there were invoices from around 24000 € for new parts and repairs;

New clutch/turbocharger/exhaust manifold/alternator/new break disc/fr damper/rr damper and springs and other minor repairs and changes.

Big costs were done by the last owner.Hopefully will i be spared from big costs after the engine is fixed.

Next week ,we gonna pick up the car and start working on the engine and the interior.

Many thanks to my friends for their advice and their help in the next weeks;

Projet starts from here,fingers crossed

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Listen if the belt was changed recently and was a genuine belt then you may have some come back on the belt manufacturer. I think it should be changed time wise every 2-3 years,but as for mileage even if it hasnt been changed bang on time i would be very surprised if it just snapped,missing teeth could be that the belt has degraded through temp extremes uv exposure that sort of thing,have you checked the tensioner pulley? I am not sure from your posts wether its clear how the engine stopped? I am not sure that missing teeth on the belt will necessarly cause the engine to stop ,run rough as a badgers but not stop.I wouldnt pull the head off untill you have replaced the belt and done(very carefully ,feeling all the way) a compression check,you may just be in luck.

As always stand to be corrected .

Nick S4s

ETA.i think i may have repeated alot of other peoples post in essence so forgive me,one other thing there is no such thing as a cheap S4s .I have had mine for 10 years and know !

Edited by fflyingdog

Simplest things first.

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Well, as long as you go into the situation with your "eyes open" (aware of what is alleged to be the situation and what may be the real situation) and so got a good price then you should be OK with this.

What you do next depends on whether it's you doing the work or a mechanic. Either way, a diagnosis of the engine situation in a safe way is called for, so no just sticking a belt on and turning the key hoping.

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next week, the car will be here;

two esprit-experts gonna place a new belt and do the same things like fflyingdog mentioned;

Those guys knowing what they are doing.And they read here also this topic ;-)

But,honestly i expect that there will be bigger costs;

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  • 2 weeks later...

update: the car is now in our possession and we have put a new timebelt on and turned it over by hand;

This was no problem and did go well and we heard no noises or ticking. This was a good sign.

then the compression test: in none off the 4 cilinders we had compression. S..t

So we are going to take the head off and look at the valves if the are bend .

strange that it would turn over but no compression what so ever;

I think it's gonna be a garry Kemp job;

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  • 1 month later...

Update after a few weeks.

We have put a new timebelt on the engine and turned it by hand without any problem.

We did then a compressiontest and we had no compression on each cylinder.

We took the head off from the motor and all the valves where bend.

So we send the head to Garry Kemp for new valves and the rest is in the list.

as we speak the parts are back on its way toward us.

So next week we will rebuild the engine

my friends will also place a electric chargecooler pump,KN airfilter,high flow cat,blow off valve,ram air and in the next weeks a red race chip when it have done a few trips.

this is the list from garry Kemp what he has send to us and what he has done

ARP stud bolts & nuts for the engine head

Oil filter for the Esprit (non Lotus)

Set of exhaust studs

Screw cam cover fixing B912E2037F

Exhaust gaskets

Timing belt

Timing belt tensioner bearing

Blanking plug charge cooler pump

Gasket set for the plenum & inlet nozzle

Fit new valves and guides, and re-cut the seats

Gas flow work to the plenum and inlet nozzle

Cylinder head gasket set

Re-shim the valve clearances

Postage & Packing

any comments or advice before we put the engine back together?

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Received today the head back from Garry Kemp:

Fitted with new inlet-valves 37mm

inletvalves for a S4S and Sport 300 are normally 34,68 mm

Exhaustvalves are a little bigger too.

Plenum has been flowed

Now we are waiting for oilfilter/timebelt and a few other things.

The rebuild can begin normally next week

post-13626-0-97289900-1329858279.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nice valves you have there Dachero! Let's hope the engine runs again soon. Fingers crossed!

Any way I think you're still going to be slower than my Litte Red Corvette Esprit ;):D

As you know the red ones are always the fastest LOL... :D :D

Edited by Exploded

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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Nice valves you have there Dachero! Let's hope the engine runs again soon. Fingers crossed!

Any way I think you're still going to be slower than my Litte Red Corvette Esprit ;):D

As you know the red ones are always the fastest LOL... :D :D

Fairytales are not always real! So,eat my dust ;-)i Edited by dachero
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Sorry, Danny, but Gert is correct. The Red cars are always the fastest. Has to do with the "redshift effect." Some sort of electromagnetic wavelength photonic assist inertial additive.

Or so I'm told..... :)

Best of luck with the rest of the rebuild.

Cheers,

John

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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