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Bazza 907

Esprit valuations

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So, I know I wouldnt let it go for any less than what ive spent as its fully sorted and I know wont need touching for another ten years except for maintenance......make sensr to anyone?!

I'm afraid it doesn't really make sense to me Darren. It does make sense in as much as its worth £20k to you, you've done the work to have something as you want it, and so you're unlikely to be tempted to part with it other than for an inflated sum. The not sense part is that I dont believe that the current market will support £20k for a 54k mile S4 no matter how well maintained. The market may well do in time, but by time it does, you'll need to spend another 20k on yours to make it good enough again.

I've often heard the "I used to have a ????????? but let it go for only a few hundred, if only I'd kept it it would be worth a fortune now" stories. I may even make such an assertion about my old Carlton one day. But the fact is, when I had it, it was costing me a fortune each year to keep it at the standard that would attract top money. If I hadn't spent the money it would have been a nail and worth nothing. Spending a fortune kept it good which I enjoyed, and I sold it for reasonable money (though well short of some prices I see advertised) - but I only got back a fraction of the money I put into it over the decade I had it.

I think there are very very few cars that can be looked on as investments if you look at the total cost of ownership rather than just buy and sell prices.

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Can we continue to talk the prices down please! Well, at least while I am still Espritless anyway. ;)

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Ian

Get on board mate, it's clear that they are only going in one direction and with the spring round the corner..

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I agree with Barrie, prices are looking stronger and cars becoming scarce. The better weather does bring out the buyers :driving:

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I think my point may have got confused there. I didnt say I thought it was worth 20k. I have no intention of selling, as its the exact model spec colour etc ive always wanted..soits my boyhood dream exactly as I want it so im willing to spend that cash making it as good as as it is a sound investment in terms of money, time and readability to get everything done to start with...but asi said at the start, the product is only worth what people will pay...regardless of anything else...but its a vehicle thats safe to say will only gain value and credibility over time with the right examples...

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I'm quite surprised they aren't worth more.

I've been looking for something to go rallying/hillclimbing in and the Mk1/Mk2 Escorts and Capri's all fetch £5k plus, and that's for something in relatively poor condition - talking £15k for something mint.

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I'm with Barrie & Cliff, the prices are on there way up. One reason why I have kept mine. I'd hate to sell and then not be able to get back onboard. Surley Excels have got to be a real bargain as well.

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Can we continue to talk the prices down please! Well, at least while I am still Espritless anyway. ;)

You have no excuses in this department, I send you low priced bargains at all times of the day and night!! as the man said "get on board" ;)

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As a specialist, I can only say what I see happening inside these four walls. I've just sold two S1's and sold them for figures that some thought completely unattainable. They sold quickly, and made their asking prices. They also drew more interest than any other Lotus currently on my books, and the counters on the Pistonheads site confirm the hits per ad.

S1's have huge interest at present; I had received enquiries from Japan, USA, Australia, France, Belgium. If you remember that 205 were registered in the UK, that made them rare then. Now, how many survive?

How many people have fallen in love with the car over the years, and are in a position to own one, or buy one and restore it? Proper restorations at rate, are perhaps £50K. So, with a diminishing car pool, a rise in interest then the prices will go up. And why should they not? We have ust seen a celebrity car enthusiast buy one, and another has been sourced by a famous CEO.

People pay £25-30K happily for a Europa Special. Elans have broken £35K, and I reckon they'll be £45K before too long. But for some reason, the Esprit has always been overlooked. Perhaps it's an age thing, that second time 'round sensation where a certain generation can afford to buy the car they used to push around the carpet as a kid. Don't know. But an S1 Esprit at £35-40K versus an S2 Exige S at the same money.....well, people seem to have no problem with buying the second car. Yet the Esprit at that money seems outrageous! In my mind, an S1 Esprit at that money makes a fine choice as it will probably not lose anything, and may increase further. The modern will still be subject to depreciation, and this is a cost that people seem happier to accept. I can't stand losing money on cars!

Different things carry different values to people. I'd never pay £20M for a Ferrari. I don't care how special it is, whose had it, where it's been raced. But I'd pay handsomely to own my dream car which just happens to be an S1 Esprit.

I reckon Esprit is at a time where values will increase. Some much more than others, S1's, Essex, Early G Turbo, S4S, Sport 300, and 350 all tipped for good times, good S2's and anything else low mileage/exceptional will follow suit. Depends what may happen with the brand, and for sure if and when the new one appears, it may boost "oldtimer" prospect and carry demand and values further.

I just hope someone starts to remanufacture some of the more elusive parts for them all so we can keep enjoying them for a long while to come.

Cheers!

Scott.

www.scottwalkers.com

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Thanks Scott

I was really hoping that someone with your expertise in the area would chip in. :unworthy:

As prices go up let's hope more will become economically viable to save. :)

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Franc........."£8000 with an hour left - not seen a Turbo go for that much on Ebay for a long time. You could be right!"

"Might have gone for more if it wasn't so hideous!"

Thats "Scary"... famous previous owner parhaps?

72459C4A-F828-341D-693F33B0592BF117.jpg

Seriously though, how times change.......

Ok it was 1983 when I bought my S1 but the S1 was considered a real dog at that time and was only seen as a stepping stone to a newer model.

For many years after that it was still not really classed as “the” Esprit to have.

I think the Internet may have been partly to do with the rise of the S1..... and Esprits in general.

Instead of standing in a field at some car club meeting, people were discussing their cars over the web and posting pictures and that raised interest massively.

Enthusiasts spoke more and more about the early cars and from that other people started to get interested and hence the prices went up.

With the limited availability of Esprits, I don’t think that they will ever lose money in the long term and high profile owners will boost prices even further.

But then again if you have an early or rare Esprit are you ever likely to sell it? .... there for availability becomes less, prices rise......

Edited by GordonMasson

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Go on Paul, treat yourself! I always thought Silk Red was the best colour for an S4. There used to be one at my local dealers (actually a GM garage when they owned Lotus) and it sat unsold for about a year. I used to go and stare through the window every weekend, never in my wildest dreams expected to ever own one.

By the way, this value thread seems to pop up every year opr so, and it always looks the same "prices creeping up" etc, then winter happens and they deflate. Apart from S1s and Elan +2s it's always the same, then you go and look at Car and Classic or something and find someone selling a Brooklands Capri for 28 grand, or a mk1 XR2 for 5 grand. For christ sake even BL tosh like Landcrabs are on the rise. Lotus are hideously undervalued, having said that if they weren't I couldn't have one - double edged sword?

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Mark that is very true.. if values were skyhigh then ownership woudl not be a realistic proposition for most people. even still its nice to see a bit of a rise (especially if your already in the ownership game!)

I had a look at that particular S4s a little while ago. it is simply stunning. paintwork is spot on, wheels have just been refurbed and its relativley low mileage. previously owned by a chap whom i belive has experience in race mechanics and quite a few cars. it is however very very expensive. Thats the thing with esprits.. theres alot of shit ones around that float around. A good esprit will command a strong price although that i belive to be too high...

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Lotus are hideously undervalued, having said that if they weren't I couldn't have one - double edged sword?

As succinct a summary as I've ever seen, Mark. Spot on.

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Got to say that I would never been able to purchase my '93 if these coaches were priced like they look. These are indeed old cars to be trying to do 180 mph in, and they more than likely need much mechanical freshening, such as all the bushings never renewed over its life, which ain't cheap to do if you have to pay another to do it as I do. Hell, I don't even have a garage to keep the car in but that is the choice I was faced with in order to finally have the car of my dreams. I am not well nor wealthy.

Additionally, I am not one for factory new leather, seats, on a tri-annual basis nor it being maintained in concourse condition I believe is the term, since being in that condition will most certainly inhibit the carousing up and down the lane with appropriate abandon this car seems to make me do EVERY time I arrive behind the wheel. Example, It is impossible to keep the front end paint from being frequently nicked unless you never come up from behind anyone and the like, so I would rather not pay for a car's pristine paint job as a purchase point.

Once my mods are completed, I am hoping it will then go like it looks like it should go - read as FASTer than the 220 wheel HP it came with, and hopefully this will provide real life results quite unlike the recent test I saw of the Evora being totally trashed in a straight line. That is what I bought mine to do, no not going to drop the clutch at 5000 rpm, not planning to ever show it as if it had never been pushed down the road, hard. It is my last toy in life since I can no longer get my legs over the seat of my 150HP motorcycle, nor ski, nor much of anything else requiring hips that work that 1) I can afford and 2) can physically do. Even getting in is quite tough on my body, but once in, engine on, surround sound up, loud trance coming from everywhere, A/C on, a Coke in the holder and a cig in the ashtray, I am in my own Nirvana. My great thanks to no one pushing the price where it really ought to be.

MikieP

Edited by MikieP

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now i know that we have talked about prices going up but i think the white S3 on ebay at the moment is a little hopeful at £15,000? I think i could understand it if is was a Turbo. Have a look. Cheers Paul

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Totally disagree. How much to buy a rough N/A S3? Say £6K

Good respray £4k, engine rebuild £6k?

Then you're left with a car that still needs work and you've already spent £16k and had all the agro that goes with it.

Seriously, find the very best one that you can afford and there will be less chance of you regretting it. How many 37k mile G Esprits are there around and to some an S3 is a far better option than a Turbo irrespective of cost.

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Does look a lovely original example and Bazza is right, won't be too many of them around.

From someone who purchsed a rough car and has spent the money and had the agro (but had some fun too), I know exactly where you are coming from Bazza. BUT for some reason I also think the price is a little high. Will watch with interest though.

EDIT - for info my respray was £2k, I hope some of you can judge it for yourself over the next few months.

Edited by Nelly9000

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yes i agree that there wont be many around and yes its low milage but looking at the pictures the seat and carpet look a bit tired and one of the carbs looks a bit rough. For £15000 i would expect it to be mint. Im currently restoring an 1980 S2.2, you can have a look at what im doing in the restoration section under Small Progress and At last shes stripped, im doing a nut and bolt restoration, full respray, full interior, engine rebuild etc. Now maybe im wrong but i was looking at the value when finished to be around £16000 which will be less than ive spent on it. So this is why i think the S3 is a little over priced? Or hopefully ive under priced mine? :huh:

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