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Where/What is it expanding into?


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I think about this every so often and I can not come up with an answer that I can make sense of.

It has been proven by red shift that our universe is expanding outward from a central point.

If we imagine our universe as we know it to be a balloon with the skin of the balloon being the outer boundary of our expanding universe,

WHAT is it expanding into?

( just can't wait for Mr Heath to find this. :) )

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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It's not the universe that's expanding; the entire universe was created instantly by the Big Bang. What IS happening is that the lumpy bits are still whizzing out to fill it up! One could argue that the Big Bang created reality...so nothing real (to us!) can exist beyond our Universe. Then again, there are an infinite number of possible universes, all of which exist at the same time. I think this sort of discussion is best fuelled by a bottle of Mr. Daniel's finest......

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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..... to fill it up! .....

My point exactly. Filling what up. What is there outside that boundary? You can't expand into nothing as nothing does not exist. So what is 'the lumpy stuff' expanding into?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Unfortunately mate, I do the same kind of thinking as you. It's futile. You will never find the answer, you'll just screw your head up eventually. I know, coz I'm there already. :blink:

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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It's definitely one of those thoughts that can get your mind spinning. Another thought is if the universe is expanding into something, couldn't there also be other universes that are expanding, and what happens if those two universes collide.

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Guest surferphil

The 'Big bang' cant 'create' anything. Physics says so. Also says that there is no sound in space, so no 'bang' either, sadly as there was nothing there before the 'Big Bang' to 'size' it, it can't really be quantified, so scientifically it can't be described as being 'Big'.

The good news is that the 'Big Bang Theory' (as it's more accurately known) is actually a theory and will continue to be so until it is proven, and then it will cease to even be a theory.

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The question still stands though Phil. John has said that the entire universe was created in an instant by the Big Bang. We call it that, I think, because as humans 'big' covers a lot of ground and our brains simply can not comprehend the scale and 'bang' because that symbolises an explosion.

It goes against the laws of physics though to suggest that the entire universe was created in an instant and that it was created big enough for all the lumpy bits to expand into.

So the questions is still there, that the lumpy bits etc are whizzing outward into what?

And Andrew raises another very salient point. It is ignorant of humans to suggest that our universe as we know it is the only one. So what happens if we 'bump' into another one?

How come Stephen Hawking isn't a member on here? This is a deep forum. It's not like he has heaps of other stuff to do is it?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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It's expanding into 'space'. Good luck with that :)

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This subject could end up sending someone insane! Apparently there is an all knowing all seeing entity out there you can ask,

but if it answers, you would be classed as insane for hearing it :lol:

How do they measure the distance of a Galaxy away from the earth? And how do they know it's moving away?

bearing in mind our closest neighbor is the Andromeda Galaxy, which is allegedly 2.6 million light years away, meaning if a laser was pointed at it, it would take 5.2 million years to bounce back :blink:

I love this type of discussion and watch a lot of programs on space, I just cannot get my head around it :lol:

Take Betelguise,

This star has shrunk 15% in the last fifteen years and some believe it has already gone Supernova, it is 600 light years away, so we can see something in the nights sky that may have disappeared 600 years ago :turned:

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The 'Big bang' cant 'create' anything. Physics says so. Also says that there is no sound in space, so no 'bang' either, sadly as there was nothing there before the 'Big Bang' to 'size' it, it can't really be quantified, so scientifically it can't be described as being 'Big'.

The good news is that the 'Big Bang Theory' (as it's more accurately known) is actually a theory and will continue to be so until it is proven, and then it will cease to even be a theory.

Aren't you getting confused between a hypothesis and a theory? Quantum theory, the theory of relativity, the theory of evolution all explain many things and make predictions that measurements have borne out but they stay theories. That would the Big Bang theory become if it were proven? And how would you prove it?

This subject could end up sending someone insane! Apparently there is an all knowing all seeing entity out there you can ask,

but if it answers, you would be classed as insane for hearing it :lol:

How do they measure the distance of a Galaxy away from the earth? And how do they know it's moving away?

bearing in mind our closest neighbor is the Andromeda Galaxy, which is allegedly 2.6 million light years away, meaning if a laser was pointed at it, it would take 5.2 million years to bounce back :blink:

I love this type of discussion and watch a lot of programs on space, I just cannot get my head around it :lol:

Take Betelguise,

This star has shrunk 15% in the last fifteen years and some believe it has already gone Supernova, it is 600 light years away, so we can see something in the nights sky that may have disappeared 600 years ago :turned:

"They" know it's moving away because the spectra of the stars are the same as those of other, similar, closer stars but moved in the longer wavelength or red direction because of Doppler effect.

While you may be seeing light from a star that no longer exists you may also be looking into dark gaps where the light is still on it way to us but hasn't got here yet.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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To recap....the universe was created in an instant by the Big Bang. Yes, it's a theory, but the sums which come from it seem to work. Now..accepting that the entire infinite universe was so created...complete with the Dark Matter and Dark Energy which the sums need for the theories to work,but which we can neither see nor detect....then the lumpy bits which we CAN see and measure and detect are whizzing out to fill up the infinite space which is still the realm of the Dark Energy and Dark Matter. As has been said, we know the visible bits of the universe are expanding due to the measurable doppler shift in known wavelengths. I suppose one has to mention the Higg's Boson...the "God Particle"...which the good folks at the Large Hadron Collider are currently seeking out....without success, I may add. They do think that they are closing in on it, though......apart from those of them who think it doesn't exist at all, which would be even more interesting as it would mean all the theories are wrong!!

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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The big bang theory. This suggests that there was once one very very large lump of lumpy bit to begin with. How did this very large lumpy bit get there in the first place? What was there before the very large lumpy bit and who lit the match to start the deternation in the first place.

I am unsure if I read it or drempt it but we (earth) has been traveling outward at around 16 miles a second from somewhere from the direction of Orions belt. (I have often looked up at the belt and thought - we haven't moved much!) at 16 miles a second, you'd at least expect to see the odd overtaking manoeuvre going on but no, still the same as the time before and the time before that.

Is the expanding universe speeding up or slowing down? If it slows down enough, will it stop? Is it elasticated? Once the expansion stops, (if it ever stops) will it start to contract? Will it pull everything back in to start another very large lumpy bit, already to start yet another very big bang. Has this happened before? How many times? When did it start? When does it end?

Brain is already tired from possibilities to questions that will probably never unfortunately be answered.

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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Ah yes...the idea that the expansion rate is slowing down, and will later reverse...whereupon the universe collapses into itself and ends up with the Big Crunch. However...it seems the expansion rate is actually increasing.... The idea of interstellar travel is going to need even more velocity to keep up with the increasing distances...

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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I watched "The Sky at night" the other day and they were talking about the Great Unknown, which is basically as far as we can ever see due to the distances it's something like 55 Billion lightyears. after this it is too far for the light to ever reach us, hence we cannot see what is there. i.e know one knows... it is the edge of the know universe

Is it expanding?, is it like a ballon?, is it parrallel universes stacked on top of each other? does it expand and contract over and over again?

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Aren't you getting confused between a hypothesis and a theory? Quantum theory, the theory of relativity, the theory of evolution all explain many things and make predictions that measurements have borne out but they stay theories. That would the Big Bang theory become if it were proven? And how would you prove it?

I'm far from confused.

Do you mean 'What' would the Big Bang theory become if it were proven? Not a theory.

And how would you prove it? It's not my theory to prove, so I wouldn't.

As for exploration of the universe the Monotheist Albert Einstein had his own theory on this; which of course would cease to be a theory if put into practice.

I watched "The Sky at night" the other day and they were talking about the Great Unknown, which is basically as far as we can ever see due to the distances it's something like 55 Billion lightyears.

I like this phrase 'great unknown', it reminds me of the old tales of the ends of the earth, what lies beyond?

Same old thing really, we can see further now that's all, still have no clue how to quantify or measure it or what it is or why.

What is beyond our universe is not in our universe and therefore our conventional logic that is based on the understanding that we have of our own universe is largely irrelevant.

Personally I believe we are bound to this universe by design. I also believe that Strawberry Ice cream is the best.

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I also like strawberry ice cream but I miss raspberry ripple.

The original lump was not very, very large but tiny, more like a singularity even though it was the universe.

If space/time is confined to our universe, then there is no space outside of it so it's not expanding into anything.

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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Yes, but I think a safer phrase would be 'expanding into nothing', some people are already at the limit of confusion, better play it safe for a while. ;)

I'd hate to get too religious for ya'll, so I won't. But I will say that the Big Bang Theory seems to support many creationist theory's written about in many cultures around the world thousands of years ago.

Before anyone accuses me of ignorance, it may be worth pointing out that I have never read a book on the 'Un quantifiable sized/Big Silent/Bang Theory'. But I have tried raspberry ripple ice cream and it was nice.

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I have just pulled these off the Nasa Website.

These are the very latest far reaching HD photos of the edge of our known universe taken from Hubble.

photo-163.jpg

photo-164.jpg

photo-162.jpg

photo-161.jpg

photo-165.jpg

photo-160.jpg

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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The question "what is it expanding into?" is a NON question

Abit like, "what came before the big bang"; and " what colour is an echo" ;and "will my wife spend anything today?"

Ie it doesnt make sense. Or it needn't be asked.

Re the what came before question, both matter AND time appeared at the big bang instant so there was no before, likewise, there is nothing for the universe to expand into. Its 'creating' its volume as it goes.......hang on, head starting to bleed.....

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Matter and time can't have been created in an instant at the big bang. There has to be something there to go bang. For there to have been something to go bang implies that there was already something, but where did that come from?

Nothing can't just go pop and start whizzing about masquerading as lumpy bits.

Someone's hiding something. :detective:

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, the only silly question on the planet is what is the square root of i.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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Utterly incomprehensible..............

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Utterly incomprehensible..............

?

Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk - that will teach us to keep mouth shut!

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