TURBO replacement

[M Blur]

Dermot, didn't you say on your page that the pressure on the fuel rail was unchanged? So which regulator did you eventually use ? Fuelpump, According to your quote the pump should make up tp 60psi ? I am still to scource a pump, probably will go for BOSCH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

John Welch told me that the X180R cars came with fuel regs marked 72psi..

I'm guessing for that sort of pressue and say matched to a Walbro 255 - then an uprated fuel rail wil also be in order.

[karmavore]

43PSI + DESIRED BOOST = MINIMUM FUEL PUMP PRESSURE.

(43PSI + 16PSI (1.1 BAR) = 59PSI)

Also, look for a regulator that will work in that range.

My Walbro support 100psi, I believe.

My regulator is Aeromotive.

[Vulcan Grey]

John Welch told me that the X180R cars came with fuel regs marked 72psi..

I'm guessing for that sort of pressue and say matched to a Walbro 255 - then an uprated fuel rail wil also be in order.

The X180-R street cars had a stock SE fuel pressure regulator.

There was a higher pressure regulator that was the stock regulator with the cap dented in to create more spring pre-load. Used yo be able to buy it, but I think my friend got the last one from Lotus. Might have been waht they used on the race cars.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Vulcan Grey

[M Blur]

The X180-R street cars had a stock SE fuel pressure regulator. 

There was a higher pressure regulator that was the stock regulator with the cap dented in to create more spring pre-load.  Used yo be able to buy it, but I think my friend got the last one from Lotus.  Might have been waht they used on the race cars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep - was referring to the race cars - as per John W

[M Blur]

43PSI + DESIRED BOOST = MINIMUM FUEL PUMP PRESSURE.

(43PSI + 16PSI (1.1 BAR) = 59PSI)

Also, look for a regulator that will work in that range.

My Walbro support 100psi, I believe.

My regulator is Aeromotive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a Denso/Walbro 255 and FSE fuel reg which should be good for quite a whack but need to check rail - looked stock on first investigation. What fuel rail should I use for higher fuel/power applications.

[M Blur]

It doesn't hurt to replace the FPR, I did.  The stock unit isn't of the highest quality, obviously.  Just make sure you set static pressure to 3BAR and no higher or lower!!

Lucas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3 bar - regardless of level of tune??

Wasn't the Sport300 set to 4.2 bar, hence different fpr?

[Paula&Marcus]

The X180-R street cars had a stock SE fuel pressure regulator.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Paula&Marcus

[Paula&Marcus]

3 bar - regardless of level of tune??

Wasn't the Sport300 set to 4.2 bar, hence different fpr?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes the S300 runs a higher static fuel pressure.

BUT, it also runs a completely different mapping !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The S300 setup (fuel wise) and the S300 setup (program/chip wise) is NOT interchangeable with SE/S4/S4s setups !

This means, if a stock SE/S4/S4s runs a S300 program/chip it will run too LEAN !

And vice versa !

Marcus

Edited July 21, 2006 by Paula&Marcus

[M Blur]

Ok - tks - good news is I don't run a stock set-up .. I also got a couple of spare Sport300 maps from the previous owner - I have a Sport300 1.25 bar in now that seems to run better - still testing with a wide band lambda. Hopefully I can later get a X180R race map off John Welch.

Map this, map that, lean this, lean that - but nothing that can't be modified to run - I always wonder why the great taboo re these cars. If the ecu's are really so bad for modifying then why persist with them.. However John Welch seems to be feel these maps can be set up to suit any car to any spec now that the code has been broken.

Turbos, fuelling, maps - it's nothing the Jap tuners haven't been doing for years. A wide band lambda goes a long way. I see similar or smaller sized Jap cars running easily more power with far better reliability. I'll stick with the GM ecu for now but really I wont hesitate to ditch it if I find it holds me back in racing. However John assures me the X180R SCCA cars still run the stock ecu with 2 bar map and aggressive ignition/fuelling to great effect.. fingers crossed.

Edited July 21, 2006 by M Blur

[Paula&Marcus]

Ok - tks - good news is I don't run a stock set-up .. I also got a couple of spare Sport300 maps from the previous owner - I have a Sport300 1.25 bar in now that seems to run better - still testing with a wide band lambda. Hopefully I can later get a X180R race map off John Welch.

Map this, map that, lean this, lean that - but nothing that can't be modified to run - I always wonder why the great taboo re these cars. If the ecu's are really so bad for modifying then why persist with them.. However John Welch seems to be feel these maps can be set up to suit any car to any spec now that the code has been broken.

Turbos, fuelling, maps - it's nothing the Jap tuners haven't been doing for years. A wide band lambda goes a long way. I see similar or smaller sized Jap cars running easily more power with far better reliability. I'll stick with the GM ecu for now but really I wont hesitate to ditch it if I find it holds me back in racing. However John assures me the X180R SCCA cars still run the stock ecu with 2 bar map and aggressive ignition/fuelling to great effect.. fingers crossed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes John, it may be a bit confusing, but the key is:

S300-maps -> S300 fuel pressure regulator. Everything differnet will not run properly

analog:

SE/S4/S4s-maps -> stock fuel pressure regulator. Ebverything differnet will also not run properly

BTW, is your engine running properly now ?

With all your mods done you should easily get 350+HP unless there is still something wrong ...

Marcus

[M Blur]

I'll get back to you Marcus.. tbc

there were some serious problems before but we're working our way through them. Car put down 300bhp/300lbft without a chargecooler working properly and no secondary injectors so there were some serious issues. It's a work in progress. Given fuelling, boost, mods I'll be aiming for that 350-380bhp slot.. but probably less as I wotn be runnign optimum compression. Then on with the GT3040R turbo upgrade over winter and an engine rebuild to help take 400-500bhp. Optimistic I know but I'll try to follow what the guys with the US X180R race cars have done.

Edited July 25, 2006 by M Blur

[esprits4de]

With regards to lag - this can be better addressed through a GT dual ball bearing turbo, which is an advance on older T designs.

For extremely fast spool up you would struggle to do better than the Garret GT28RS Disco Potato.. it spools to max boost well before 3K rpm.

Now these are exactly the things I was looking for, reduced lag and fast spool up.

I know that the Stage I is publicized for exactly these criterea, Stage II a little less but better than stock.

Just to make put it right, a Turbo and surrounding setup to support a spool up to good boost around the 2600 RPM mark, producing optimal volume until red-line, without going supersonic and heating the air too much.

Dreams ! Really, where does Stage I and Stage II spool up to good boost ?

B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)

[esprits4de]

43PSI + DESIRED BOOST = MINIMUM FUEL PUMP PRESSURE.

(43PSI + 16PSI (1.1 BAR) = 59PSI)

Also, look for a regulator that will work in that range.

My Walbro support 100psi, I believe.

My regulator is Aeromotive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK , Dermot suggests stock FPR, uprated FP, here the FP is well above stock and the regulator ? What max pressure ?

[rydning]

Hello

When I had a hybrid T3 0,63ar with a compressor T04E 50 trim turbo that was rated to 420bhp at max,3"free flow exhaust,Big efficient I/c,

extra injection system.

My Esprit was woorking incredibel good 1,3 bar of boost at 3200rpm,

I did ran it with 1.3 bar boost and 325 rwhp (may be 370bhp+??)

I did test it with 1,45 boost and I got 345rwhp and broke the turbine wheel at a hole day with track driving.

With the hybrid the boost came early and wide power range(3000-7200rpm) did do this car to a perfect match with the stock gearbox at track days.

Now with the GT3076R 0,82AR I`m not able to drive any faster on the track because I fell between the gears.I get 1.6 bar of boost at 3800rpm now.And nothing is happends before 3500rpm

So my abvice is to do something simular as Dermot.

Make sure you pic a turbo with low back pressure so you dont "cook" the internals.

I will not recomend GT28RS or GT2871 on this 2,2 because they are to "smal" on the exhaust side...I have tested the GT2871 on a 2,0 MR2 turbo and I think we had been better of with a stage 1 or 2 Hybrid.

ATP have a GT3071 with twin entry a perfect match to our pulse splitt exhaust manyfoil.I will LOVE to test this one on our cars as we can get the benefit of puls splitt (twin scroll) entry and get the boost early with wery hige topend power.

I will not recomend do more than 370bhp with the use of stock ECU.And make sure to drive the engine on the rich side A/F 11,5-12 because the stock timing is to hige for this power levels.

I did put on a Autronic SM4 ECU and it works nice now,and I`m able to controll the engine to its mecanical limits (but a LOT of work).

To get 370bhp you dont need to do a lot of expensive things only the right things.Bigger turbo with low backpressure,good Ic system and make sure you get enough fuel.

Take it smooth with the gearbox and you will beat expensive Porshe and Ferrari all day long...Thats what I like to do :-)

[M Blur]

I disagree - X180R cars run a stock ecu with an X180R chip and uprated fuelling and ecu works perfectly well - in fact some have gone back to the GM ecu from prev aftermarket.. they run 440bhp+ atw using a modified Stage4 John Welch T04E.. which for track is designed to last whereas most GT's are designed for street and drag use and GT's have no advantage over T types on circuit.

I'll be going after Nobles and Ultimas next year onwards so you see the task ahead of me. May try a GT tubby later down the line but keen to give the tried and tested route first.

Edited August 16, 2006 by M Blur

[rydning]

I disagree - X180R cars run a stock ecu with an X180R chip and uprated fuelling and ecu works perfectly well - in fact some have gone back to the GM ecu from prev aftermarket.. they run 440bhp+ atw using a modified Stage4 John Welch T04E.. which for track is designed to last whereas most GT's are designed for street and drag use and GT's have no advantage over T types on circuit.

I'll be going after Nobles and Ultimas next year onwards so you see the task ahead of me. May try a GT tubby later down the line but keen to give the tried and tested route first.

I did reply to the heading/esprits4de.Regarding Turbo replasement.

If you have a engine set up that is simular to the X180R you will get a good result.

If NOT you might bee way of on the timing and lamda.And bad respons,may be detonations with ok lamda

values or ok lamda,no knock,but hige EGT and in worst case a blown engine.

Thats why they are using Programable ECU`s in racing so they can get optimal/max power on the hole RPM range on that particular engine because no engines are identical.

Anyway you need to get in contact with people that have greate knowledge about ECU tuning/engine modifications.

If you go for the X180R ecu I vill have tested it with wideband lamda,knock and EGT if possible.

If you get the X180R to work you are gona save a LOT of work compare to put on a aftermarked ECU.

[M Blur]

Now I'm confused.. John Welch said the X180R bguys in the US are not using programmable ecu's but a specific code using the stock GM ecu. Furthermore he's said he's seen no special ecu's used by the X180R cars - those that had have reverted back to the proper GM ecu's used form outset.

We would always set-up a car using air-fuel - he also said Freescan now can monitor for wide band tho I'll have a wide band gauge fitted asap.

I appreciate the set-up/engine I'm going for is of little relevance to most 910 owners.

Thats why they are using Programable ECU`s in racing so they can get optimal/max power on the hole RPM range on that particular engine because no engines are identical.

But that's why the Gm unit is a self-learning ecu - it can adjust the fuel tables to the outputs/sensor readings of the car - that was what I was lead to believe.. + it can be scanned through Freescan which seems a terrific tool for the money imho ad is being developed constantly.

Sometimes simple is the best way fwd, no?

[esprits4de]

All of you , thank you for the tremendous input, I certainly have seen both sides of the medal through this.I made up my mind and I am going for the Dermot setup, as this simply seems to be the most drivable. Eventually, that is once I find a new love, I will, and that is for sure, find a suitable power-pack and have a lightweight body built ( all detachable parts remanufactured in carbonfiber ) that a pure race trac eater will come to life. ( I am even dwelling on propane gas, we have just converted a VW-Jeep and a MB Unimog 404S to propane.....)

ECU : looking at Dermots page, the screen shots from the PUK Memcal primeter modification tool make me realy interested if such a tool could be used to create an active memcal where the engine setup could be altered in realtime driving conditions. ( This would have to be computer aided for sure...) But it definatly would allow for absolute driving condition fine tuning. IOW citymode, highway mode, circuitmode, drag mode,.....ect. I know that PUK had made a 10 chip-set dial to alter the mode off-line.

OK stop. This will go to far. THANX AGAIN FOR THE TREMENDOUS INPUT !

[rydning]

All of you , thank you for the tremendous input, I certainly have seen both sides of the medal through this.I made up my mind and I am going for the Dermot setup, as this simply seems to be the most drivable. Eventually, that is once I find a new love, I will, and that is for sure, find a suitable power-pack and have a lightweight body built ( all detachable parts remanufactured in carbonfiber ) that a pure race trac eater will come to life. ( I am even dwelling on propane gas, we have just converted a VW-Jeep and a MB Unimog 404S to propane.....)

ECU : looking at Dermots page, the screen shots from the PUK Memcal primeter modification tool make me realy interested if such a tool could be used to create an active memcal where the engine setup could be altered in realtime driving conditions. ( This would have to be computer aided for sure...) But it definatly would allow for absolute driving condition fine tuning. IOW citymode, highway mode, circuitmode, drag mode,.....ect. I know that PUK had made a 10 chip-set dial to alter the mode off-line.

OK stop. This will go to far. THANX AGAIN FOR THE TREMENDOUS INPUT !

I need to add on that your mod to get 400bhp doesent need to cost an arm and leg....

You only need :Stage 2 hybrid Turbo with 1.4bar boost,efficient IC,port the inlet of the plenum,free flow 3" exhaust,2 bigger extra injectors,fuel pump and get help from Dermot setting up the ECU + other advice.Make sure you run rich mixture at max torque 3200-5000RPM (AF 11-11,7) because the stock Ecu is running to high timing.

You dont need to tear down the engine and buy a lot to get 400bhp if you have a good engine.This engine breaths very well stock if you let it do so...with 440bhp+ i know you have to put a bigger turbo on it and the turbo lag is gona to much.

On more quis: What are you gona do with the gearbox?....or take care

Edited August 16, 2006 by rydning

[esprits4de]

Even though it was built middle 1994, she has actual well maintained 23000 Km on the speedo. The Gearbox runs verry well. The engin has its lubricants and filters renewed every 2500 KM or every year, all inspections taken care off ( I left 2 out, but the car was only garaged for these 2 years, baby time!)

Actually I do not know if I should go for stage I or II in the set up after all, darn I was sure on the stage I, but 400 HP get me wet, especially after the highway to day, wastegate opened and turbo out of efficency window at 130 Mph.... Indecided, I or II ???!???

[rens914]

Hi there all

yust replaced my turbo for an upgraded 60mm version

but

it's broken already

i have had the super feeling for about 3 secs

probably something flew in trough the inlet port and refurbished my compressor wheel

i will enclose some nice pictures

the turbo has been sent back to Marcus

in 3 weeks i can feel the super boost again but hopefully for a hole lot longer

the positive side of the story is that i am worldchampion replacing Turbo's (45 min)

the negative thing is that i really have to be nice to my wife (costs)

She wants an additional holliday to the east (thailand) now

the most stupid thing you could do is take your wife with you going to thailand @#$%^&

greets Rens

[rydning]

Hello

When I had a hybrid T3 0,63ar with a compressor T04E 50 trim turbo that was rated to 420bhp at max,3"free flow exhaust,Big efficient I/c,

extra injection system.

My Esprit was woorking incredibel good 1,3 bar of boost at 3200rpm,

I did ran it with 1.3 bar boost and 325 rwhp (may be 375bhp+??)

I did test it with 1,45 boost and I got 345rwhp(400bhp+) and broke the turbine wheel at a hole day with track driving.

With the hybrid the boost came early and wide power range(3000-7200rpm) did do this car to a perfect match with the stock gearbox at track days.

Now with the GT3076R 0,82AR I`m not able to drive any faster on the track because I fell between the gears.I get 1.6 bar of boost at 3800rpm now.And nothing is happends before 3500rpm

So my abvice is to do something simular as Dermot.

Make sure you pic a turbo with low back pressure so you dont "cook" the internals.

I will not recomend GT28RS or GT2871 on this 2,2 because they are to "smal" on the exhaust side...I have tested the GT2871 on a 2,0 MR2 turbo and I think we had been better of with a stage 1 or 2 Hybrid.

ATP have a GT3071 with twin entry a perfect match to our pulse splitt exhaust manyfoil.I will LOVE to test this one on our cars as we can get the benefit of puls splitt (twin scroll) entry and get the boost early with wery hige topend power.

I will not recomend do more than 370bhp with the use of stock ECU.And make sure to drive the engine on the rich side A/F 11,5-12 because the stock timing is to hige for this power levels.

I did put on a Autronic SM4 ECU and it works nice now,and I`m able to controll the engine to its mecanical limits (but a LOT of work).

To get 370bhp you dont need to do a lot of expensive things only the right things.Bigger turbo with low backpressure,good Ic system and make sure you get enough fuel.

Take it smooth with the gearbox and you will beat expensive Porshe and Ferrari all day long...Thats what I like to do :-)

This is the turbo I used last time and got 400bhp (1.45bar)on the tap with a stock engine+ big IC.I do not recomend 1.45 bar of boost as you are at the limit of the turbo. http://www.mjmturbos.com/T3-T40E6350.htm

I did ran it with 1,3bar boost for 2 years and a lot of track days.

I can recomend this for you.You get 1,3bar boost alreddy at 3200rpm with a 3" free flow exhaust.

If you go for a bigger turbo you gona need a close ratio gearbox to drive any faster at the tracks.

If you are building for dragracing you gona need a stronger gearbox already at 400bhp...or take it easy...

Edited August 18, 2006 by rydning

[rens914]

forgot to add the picture

it's a sad story

gr Rens

[M Blur]

Robin,

I'm going with John Welch's stage4 as used on the X180Rs now in SVRA + a 1.7bar code which I will run at 1.25 for race and full boost (through a HKSECVIII) for qualy/sprints.. may try a 3076R like yours down the line tho - but Ithin in sprints the T04E wil be well suited as I don't need that fast puch of a duall roller.. just strong, sustained top end.

Turbo/code etc is good for 440atw @ 1.25 bar - wonder what 1.7 bar would be like.

I love how more and more Esprits are being turned into track weapons..

Dive in Jonathan - the water's fine..lol

Edited August 23, 2006 by M Blur

[rydning]

Robin,

I'm going with John Welch's stage4 as used on the X180Rs now in SVRA + a 1.7bar code which I will run at 1.25 for race and full boost (through a HKSECVIII) for qualy/sprints.. may try a 3076R like yours down the line tho - but Ithin in sprints the T04E wil be well suited as I don't need that fast puch of a duall roller.. just strong, sustained top end.

Turbo/code etc is good for 440atw @ 1.25 bar - wonder what 1.7 bar would be like.

I love how more and more Esprits are being turned into track weapons..

Dive in Jonathan - the water's fine..lol

What is the spec of that Stage4? to reach 440rwhp you gona need a good flowing exhaust turbine...

I did a lot of driving to day at a track,and its realy pulling on 1.5bar boost...with my GT3076R 0.82AR turbinehouse,I gess I have 350-360rwhp now.My consern is that everything is going SO hot that something is gona brake.I limit my self to 15min trackwork then a hour brake to cool things down.Then go on again.

How long do you stay at max trackwork?