Bahar Suspended

[Exploded]

Careful with that poll, if DRB pulls the plug tomorrow, then Lotus is gone. And I wouldn't be surprised if it is gone forever. The mess AND debts that Bahar has left are huge. I'm very sure DRB has already put sh*t loads of money into Lotus, to keep it running as is.

It seems that a lot of people in here have already forgotten that Bahar made a lot of good people leave Lotus and left Lotus with not a single car production ready for over 2 years, and even so he would need to find an extra 200 million to make the first production car ready!!! That is very sad.

But I do agree DRB should be more open to the press about what they are doing. That's a good point.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Exploded

[Bibs]

Careful with that poll, if DRB pulls the plug tomorrow, then Lotus is gone. 

 

Srsly?

[Exploded]

yes, I don't see anyone taking over the pile of debts and the mess, in these times of great economic crisis. So Lotus will need to go bankrupt first before any one want to start it up again. Hate to see that happen. That's why I think David Hunt is such a respectable person, he didn't let Team Lotus down.

[andydclements]

Isn't the majority of the Lotus debt underwritten by Proton, so that if Lotus went under the debt is till owed by Proton rather than being written off? In which case it makes bankruptcy even less likely.

[TBD]

I can't imagine anyone would seriously state that DRB is doing a good job in Lotus PR and probably have no understanding of managing global PR fr a non-Malaysian subsiduary.

 

However, all they have said so far does indicate their serious commitment to restoring Lotus to profitability. In fact, it seems thay have made considerable progess along this road. So, there should not be a real worry regarding potential bankruptcy by Lotus.

 

Nonetheless, Dany had a vision for Lotus future, which DRB seemingly does not have (at least they haven't let anyone take part in it).

[Kimbers]

No Andy. The debts are attributed to Lotus.

[Bibs]

But underwritten by Proton...

[Exploded]

I bet the lawyers will have to put in little effort to prove it's spent on Lotus and technically theirs. But you can not deny lotus is in very very very deep sh*t if drb gives in/up.

[Bibs]

I bet the lawyers will have to put in little effort to prove it's spent on Lotus and technically theirs.

Contractually impossible. You can't get out of a commitment you signed for by saying 'they spent it' and pointing...

[Exploded]

Well Bibs I'm not an accountant nor a lawyer, you probably know this better then I do and let's assume the loan is not Lotus's. But aside from the loan I remember Lotus closing last year with a $180 million loss and they had ended 2011 with a $35 million loss.Not to mention the loss of 2010. It all adds up.
I honestly don't see other companies investing in such loss making car company, in these times of economic crisis and at times where automotive is treated as if it is radio-active waist and you need to go around in a very big circle.

So I keep my fingers crossed DRB remains committed and that they spread their plans over the media. So we all know if we can believe in it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Exploded

[TBD]

That $180 million loss was almost entirely attributable to one-time writeoffs taken on the development expenditures for the previous five car business plan. Let's hope DRB was thorough on this and fully cleared the books - without imposing new debt on Lotus.

 

The important thing is that Lotus is meanwhile at or near profitability with regard to day-to-day business.

 

That is the important factor regarding Lotus future and the willingness of anyone to invest further.

[simonb]

My understanding of "underwritten" is that after you sell off every last piece of "Lotus", then Proton are liable for the balance of debt. Hardly an interesting route to follow. I would really like to see a facelift model out of Lotus, to me Evora is a bit fugly, same underpinnings, same improved build quality, but a new DRB body would seem to show a "reborn" Lotus

[USAndretti42]

I don't see the marketing benefit of a car with your name on wining a Grand Prix when you have little to sell in major markets such as the USA.  DB would have done better to invest some if that money he wasted into keeping the Elise and the Evora up to speed with the American regulations rather than living on waivers that would, and have, expired.  I'm with Kimbers on this one.

[Bibs]

£20m for 7 years branding in F1 (especially on the top step) is pretty good value whichever way you look at it though.

 

I'm not privy to figures but would think that Head & Shoulders spent more and I'm not sure what they get out of the spend! 

[Nelly]

I agree, head and shoulders in F1 is a bit "flaky" to me - had me scratching my head.

 

With all the talk about how much DB spent, surely it was with someones blessing at Proton?  They must have sanctioned this so someone in Malaysia must also be accountable?

Edited March 20, 2013 by Nelly9000

[Bibs]

The then Proton Chairman Syed Zainal - He lost his job at the same time as Bahar.

[Nelly]

That makes perfect sense!

[fmxa]

While Lotus was marginally profitable when MJK left, it also had little future with its then line up of cars and year-to-year ongoing federal exemptions. DB had a vision (money or not) to take Lotus from the turnip field mentality to a true super car company, and brand recognition for Lotus in F1 was a major win (and still is).  After all, Lotus was synonymous with F1 at the height of its fame and it's great to see it again.  The current cars are tired and played out, there's nothing new on the horizon, DRB are doing an even worse job of PR than pre-DB Lotus (which I never thought possible) so I'll take anything positive right now which is F1

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

From the turnip field.... too true! 

 

As you say at least DB had a vision and the sad thing is part of it's finally working out, i.e. F1 success. 

 

DRB have owned Lotus for over a year now, no big announcements, no plans, nothing of subtance. The Exige S is a potential winner but the massive delay's have knocked potential sales and publicity now. The Evora's still got some life in it, ( I would say that ! ) but it's an underrated and misunderstood car that would need a serious relaunch to grab peoples imagination and attention.

 

I've no  idea where that leaves Lotus... and on past form DRB aren't likely to enlighten us either. 

[Bibs]

What have DRB done since they've been in charge?

[Kimbers]

Yeah I agree Trev. Bahar virtually killed the product in America. The guys in the US told me that he cut their marketing budget to $0 and told them that his Hollywood parties would do the trick.....take into account that the Marketing budget included press cars, Stock for Dealer events, Marketing for dealers, advertising etc.

 

Then you are right. It almost seemed like he wanted to kill the Evora.....strange cause I heard he loved it......

 

But where he had vision, as I said before, implementing is another matter and taking your focus off homologation is the biggest no no you can do!

[Bibs]

Why didn't the Evora have 'smart airbags' in the first place? Every other car in the USA has them by the looks of it so it can't be that expensive. Why weren't they designed into it when the USA was meant to account for 50% of the cars sales?

[Kimbers]

While Lotus was marginally profitable when MJK left, it also had little future with its then line up of cars and year-to-year ongoing federal exemptions. DB had a vision (money or not) to take Lotus from the turnip field mentality to a true super car company, and brand recognition for Lotus in F1 was a major win (and still is).  After all, Lotus was synonymous with F1 at the height of its fame and it's great to see it again.  The current cars are tired and played out, there's nothing new on the horizon, DRB are doing an even worse job of PR than pre-DB Lotus (which I never thought possible) so I'll take anything positive right now which is F1

 

FMXA. They made £1.5 Million for the first profit in 10 years. And with no loans or debts this was pure profit, not an interest payment as it would have been and is now under Bahar! Far be it for me to say what Lotus were doing under MJK, it's not like I knew anything. But even Car magazine had articles on MJK's Lotus 5 yr plan!

 

A select few, including members here had already seen the New Esprit, which under MJK would have been out a year ago! There was a brand new Elise and Exige next followed by a new "Supercar" in 2015! Add in to that the 211 and a planned collaboration model then if anything MJK's team would have had a better line up than Bahars plan!! And it was perfectly feasible unlike the aforementioned plan!

 

At least 3 of those cars (the New Elise, Evora and Esprit) would have been homologated for the USA.

 

I do agree the F1 side was a good move but when you consider that MJK spent only £80 million on a new Model (Evora) it seems a big chunk.

[Advantage]

But the MJK Esprit styling was as bland as the Evora's is and would most likely have suffered from similar dire sales. No wonder Bahar wanted to start again.

 

 

If I recall correctly, MJK pushed the Evora and cancelled the V6 Exige development. Y'know, the car which was rejuvenated under Bahar's tenure and now has a waiting list of real customers and not a fleet load of "Manager" cars.

[andydclements]

Bland may never be the height of fashion but it doesn't then go out of fashion easily or quickly. With low volume production you need maximum realistic production longevity else you spend a fortune redesigning every few years (which higher volume do) and cannot spread the cost over 1000s of production units.