Bahar Suspended

[Bibs]

you and fcuk. Re-arrange them

[Simon350S]

I did have a similar thought myself....

[B1 RMA]

Do Bibs and Gino look a little similar? ....opppps! I think so!

You are absolutely right, the reason I put the comment on that the photograph 'they look a dodgy lot' was because I thought it was Bibs at the front (a bit smarter perhaps). I'll get my coat.

I have not paid a lot of attention to the Bahar debacle as I found that with most of these type of scenarios there's an awful lot of froth and bull flying at the time and time will probably reveal all.

[Exploded]

I don't mind admitting i was a (big) fan of DB; apart from whatever the new owners got rid of DB for & the swizz beatz connection, and i suppose untill the truth (from both sides) comes out helicopters/houses etc or whatever else it was;

DB put Lotus back on the world stage, not probably the right way but effective all the same

Are you on drugs? At which cost has Bahar brought Lotus back on stage? There is 300 million to be paid and there is still not a bloody new car in sight... :(

The new CEO will never be popular, he is the one who needs to fill the financial holes...

Err.... Is Gino in fact Bibs's Italian cousin??????

Edited June 15, 2012 by Exploded

[Simon350S]

Senor Gino el Bibo

Edited June 15, 2012 by Simon350S

[Moxie]

Do Bibs and Gino look a little similar? ....opppps! I think so!

Isn't that comment specifically in the TLF rules as grounds for account banishment?

Screw it--I say we make Gino t-shirts instead. Just this photo...

...with the label "FIREFIGHTER", i.e., his self-described job function. Who's with me? GI-NO, GI-NO, GI-NO!!! Or maybe just NO.

[73JPS]

Since they do look alike, maybe we could run some sort of James Bond - like (ala Thunderball) switcheroo, and get Bibs on the Board?

[Simon350S]

What and have Gino run TLF???

No way! Your off your head Patrick.....!

I'd rather Lotus go bust than loose this place!

[koorby]

Count me in the minority also, who thought DB's tenure was mostly positive for many reasons already mentioned above.

My MY11 Evora IPS is faultless: not a rattle or squeak, impeccable build quality, bullet-proof performance and near perfect panel fit and overall finish. I became a Lotus owner during the DB era and actually quite enjoyed own a car from a company whose CEO consistently managed to keep Lotus in the press.

Some people clearly misunderstand what the role of a CEO is - first and foremost to provide leadership and vision and secondly to ensure all the business units under him and working towards profitability in the long term. A CEO should also be a figurehead and have a very high public profile. You can tick the box on that last point for DB.

You certainly cannot do so with the incoming COO; apart from some obscure blurry photos he is anonymous. I sincerely hope there is an active search for a CEO with some industry profile and some spark in them, not a boring corporate suit - we can get that from the VW group anytime we want.

As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

[Iconic Ride]

And with a flourish Mr. Godwin made his presence known...

[Moxie]

I think the fact that Bahar kept Lotus in the press is hardly the point. First, not all press is good press, and it certainly hasn't all been good. More like periods of positive reestablishment punctuated by outrageous embarassments and laughable hucksterism. But more importantly, I think the real question is whether or not most other qualified CEOs could have done more with the same amount of money. Personally, I think that's a yes. Put another way, if you'd parachuted a chimp in to Hethel with that amount of funding they could have increased Lotus's exposure.

Throwing money at merchandising isn't exactly visionary. Neither is rolling out a raft of pie-in-the-sky cars that all look like half-assed Lambos and one of which any moron could have told you had too much overlap with two others. As far as I'm concerned the most creative thing he did with his marketing money was give Evoras to Bibs for the long term test.

Dany was fond of using the phrase "It's all about ______" and filling the blank with endless brand-speak. He told us up front that he wasn't a car guy and that his emphasis was on brand--'scuse me, *BRAND*-- above all else. I'm sure it all must have sounded very sexy to Proton, but forget about Dany--shame on them for drinking the Kool-Aid and not going with someone who brought a more sober and grounded vision. That's part of what I find strangely amusing--that the guys who backed it all then ratted him out.

I said it before and I'll say it again--I think Dany could have been the greatest CMO Lotus could ever want, but not the best CEO they could want. He would have been better supporting a CEO who could take the best of what Dany had to offer and channel it more effectively rather than letting him run amuck.

John, Dany didn't seem to have a sense of humor either. He walked right by me, Tony K, and Gordon eight times in the lobby at Hethel and didn't laugh once. Didn't even compliment me on my clown costume, the dud.

[Iconic Ride]

Somewhere, in an alternative universe, Dany parachuted into a Hethel awash with funds from the sale of countless Loti purchased by rabid enthusiasts participating in a global economic boom that provided full employment and magnificent salaries for all. And in that world he was hailed as a hero. Unfortunately for us, the reality bestowed upon our corner of the multiverse has not enjoyed such favourable conditions of late. I'm not so certain that anyone could have parlayed such an environment into a profitable enterprise until the ballgame was well into the ninth inning. And since the relief pitcher has been ferreted in during the seventh-inning stretch, we will never know if Bahar's "vision" might have ultimately bourn fruit. I think he truly meant well and gave it the good fight, excesses notwithstanding. I do not envy the challenges his replacement will face, as we are a hard group to please at times.

[richardvg]

I think the fact that Bahar kept Lotus in the press is hardly the point. First, not all press is good press, and it certainly hasn't all been good. More like periods of positive reestablishment punctuated by outrageous embarassments and laughable hucksterism. But more importantly, I think the real question is whether or not most other qualified CEOs could have done more with the same amount of money. Personally, I think that's a yes. Put another way, if you'd parachuted a chimp in to Hethel with that amount of funding they could have increased Lotus's exposure.

Throwing money at merchandising isn't exactly visionary. Neither is rolling out a raft of pie-in-the-sky cars that all look like half-assed Lambos and one of which any moron could have told you had too much overlap with two others. As far as I'm concerned the most creative thing he did with his marketing money was give Evoras to Bibs for the long term test.

Dany was fond of using the phrase "It's all about ______" and filling the blank with endless brand-speak. He told us up front that he wasn't a car guy and that his emphasis was on brand--'scuse me, *BRAND*-- above all else. I'm sure it all must have sounded very sexy to Proton, but forget about Dany--shame on them for drinking the Kool-Aid and not going with someone who brought a more sober and grounded vision. That's part of what I find strangely amusing--that the guys who backed it all then ratted him out.

I said it before and I'll say it again--I think Dany could have been the greatest CMO Lotus could ever want, but not the best CEO they could want. He would have been better supporting a CEO who could take the best of what Dany had to offer and channel it more effectively rather than letting him run amuck.

Well put ..."the concise ode to DB"

In addition to this ,DB in hindsight , managed to dupe Proton out of hundreds of millions of pounds .I do not believe another manufacturer would have been fitting of the accolade nor would they have succumbed to the ambush .We have merely followed the black sheep en route to the gravy train's station.

If we are to honestly sit down and work out how effective DB operated the consideration should be given to either the integrity of his MBA or to the testament thereof.Brand....huh...Lotus was already a brand !DB was not and herein we find the toy in our Rice Crispies .

DB was more concerned about DB and Lotus was his vehicle (excuse the pun) for his own marketing.Wander back to how staff were treated vs 5 bob rock stars ,IT WAS ALL ABOUT DB !

His achievements ,truth be told ,are equivalent to my list of "things to do " for a week .

Ask yourself "If you were given all that money ,a good designer and such dedicated staff....what would you have achieved ?"

Lotus were renowned for developing,from scratch ,to production within 18 months.

Oh yes i am oh so over DB and his ball ache !

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

we will never know if Bahar's "vision" might have ultimately bourn fruit. I think he truly meant well and gave it the good fight, excesses notwithstanding. I do not envy the challenges his replacement will face, as we are a hard group to please at times.

My concern is whereas Bahar had a vision his replacement has little more than a calculator.

[DarrylV8]

Can't all be bad DB has managed to keep this thread with 23pages and counting!

When's Goodwood so we can start another "hot" topic oops wont the Lotus cars being shown be DB's cars?? Good job the "team" at Hethal are still busy producing our cars!

[B1 RMA]

To quote richardvg:-

Ask yourself "If you were given all that money ,a good designer and such dedicated staff....what would you have achieved ?"

Lotus were renowned for developing,from scratch ,to production within 18 months.

Oh yes i am oh so over DB and his ball ache !

I think you have just about summed it up, I know I only run a small business and at the massive scale of operation that is Lotus things I know get clouded but someone else in authority should have acted sooner.

Edited June 16, 2012 by B1 RMA

[DarrylV8]

as you say David;" but someone else in authority should have acted sooner."

Anything from the bunker to report??

[B1 RMA]

I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

[ramjet]

Can't imagine that being viable David from a production perspective as the factory, I imagine, is set up to build off the evora chassis (mid-engine). The old elan (front-engine) would have to be redesigned to fit the platform?

[cnapan]

Lotus were renowned for developing,from scratch ,to production within 18 months.

...and never really made much money doing it.

It isn't Dany Bahar who is responsible for the approach Lotus is taking. It's the engineers who are trying to make engineering investment go further.

And Lotus *does* need to nurture the brand so that people with a lot of money will consider Lotus when (if!) these products emerge.

Bahar's gone, but it doesn't necessarily follow that Lotus will get back to behaving like it did in the 1970s, and nor should it.

[NedaSay]

Can't imagine that being viable David from a production perspective as the factory, I imagine, is set up to build off the evora chassis (mid-engine). The old elan (front-engine) would have to be redesigned to fit the platform?

I don't think so! Evora is based on the The VVA platform and it is versatile by design... Basically the central tub can be the same on all cars while front end and rear end can accomodate diverse configurations. That was DB plan, using the VVA so that Esprit (mid engine) and Elite (front engine) share up to whopping a 70% of their organs (the last 30% is the most visible part but not the most expensive to engineer!)

Lotus would have in the end two families of cars the mid engined (Elise2015, Evora and Esprit 2014) and the front engined ( Elite, Eterne) but in the grand scheme and with the modular engine Lotus would have been able to come up with anything like a compact 2 seater roadster in a very short time frame using the Elise tub dimensions with an Elite front end (if shortened to receiver a V6 or 4 cyl) The same way a crossover vehicule could also see the light of day using the Eterne tub... APC anyone!?

Edited June 16, 2012 by NedaSay

[cnapan]

I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

I bought my Elise when it first came out, and the Mazda MX5 was one of the alternatives at the time. One simple reason why the MX5 was more appealing than the Elise (apart from cost) was that it was easier to live with. Getting in and out was easy. Putting the roof up was easy. It was better built. It had a better boot. For most people, the choice was obvious. Toyota were geared up to make money on this car by building hundreds of thousands of them - something Lotus didn't have the capacity to do anyway.

So it was never really on the cards that the Elise could have been a high volume success (not in global terms), even though in Lotus terms it clearly was.

[red vtec]

You also have to remember Mazda (Ford) had millions to spend on development, Lotus were probably looking down the back of the sofa for a lost fiver.

Personally I don't think all that DB did was wrong.

[B1 RMA]

Fair points but I still think if a car could be produced at an entry level price which could have upgrade bits available to either buy at a later date or have the option for the more expensive options to be available at the time of purchase it could work. Also if they haven't dumped it dump involvement in Formula 1 and start a clubman series with this new range of small, light, quick well handling cars. Perhaps start small and build on it because for those of us who had a Lotus in the 70's the new generation of potential buyers can perhaps see where this car is coming from.

Edited June 16, 2012 by B1 RMA

[Suddabym]

As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

I agree, John, well said. This thread is full of banal drivel and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. I'm the only one on this with anything sensible and accurate to report. Lucky for you lot Dany and I are down here!

So anyway, we've run out of gentlemen's relish. Dany had some ideas about how we could replenish our stocks, but we've agreed never to mention that conversation again. Now he's compensating by learning to toboggan. I know, we've had to be inventive about how to make that work down here.

Oh, and Wolverine called. Apparently, the three wheeler has been switched off. Turns out Dany's brilliant idea to exploit the gap in the market left by Reliant, by launching an overpriced, under-specced three wheeler with no roof, engine, or anything, made out stuff lying about the place and then marketed as a British underdog by painting it in the colours of a WWII spitfire, has already been done. Bloody Morgan, who develop a new car every time the tree they carve it from matures, beat Lotus to it. Man, Dany has had some rotten luck recently. Poor bloke. And it's showing too. His tan is getting blotchy and he's stopped wearing his girdle completely.

New guy is all about compact and budget now. The first New New Era car is going to be a two seater sports coupe convertible Gen2. Then Lotus are going to sponsor Iceland frozen party buckets in order to take the brand to their new customer base. Then the Savvy is going to be entered into the British Touring Car Championships. Then will come the 'Engineered By Proton' Lotus range. New guy's plan is with Proton doing the ride and handling, Lotus can concentrate on not going bust. Dany thinks it's a crap plan and he's a marketing marathon, so I'm with him. New guy's plan is pants. I mean, what does he know? I heard he worked as a car parking attendant at Heathrow. Is that true? Dany thinks it is.

Right, off to build a sled run around the chemical toilet.

The rest of you need to grow up and stop writing self-serving, juvenile pish and start reporting real actual facts. Like me.

Anything from the bunker to report??

Don't worry. We've still got nine years, three hundred and fifty five days down here.