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I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

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Can't imagine that being viable David from a production perspective as the factory, I imagine, is set up to build off the evora chassis (mid-engine). The old elan (front-engine) would have to be redesigned to fit the platform?

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Lotus were renowned for developing,from scratch ,to production within 18 months.

...and never really made much money doing it.

It isn't Dany Bahar who is responsible for the approach Lotus is taking. It's the engineers who are trying to make engineering investment go further.

And Lotus *does* need to nurture the brand so that people with a lot of money will consider Lotus when (if!) these products emerge.

Bahar's gone, but it doesn't necessarily follow that Lotus will get back to behaving like it did in the 1970s, and nor should it.

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Can't imagine that being viable David from a production perspective as the factory, I imagine, is set up to build off the evora chassis (mid-engine). The old elan (front-engine) would have to be redesigned to fit the platform?

I don't think so! Evora is based on the The VVA platform and it is versatile by design... Basically the central tub can be the same on all cars while front end and rear end can accomodate diverse configurations. That was DB plan, using the VVA so that Esprit (mid engine) and Elite (front engine) share up to whopping a 70% of their organs (the last 30% is the most visible part but not the most expensive to engineer!)

Lotus would have in the end two families of cars the mid engined (Elise2015, Evora and Esprit 2014) and the front engined ( Elite, Eterne) but in the grand scheme and with the modular engine Lotus would have been able to come up with anything like a compact 2 seater roadster in a very short time frame using the Elise tub dimensions with an Elite front end (if shortened to receiver a V6 or 4 cyl) The same way a crossover vehicule could also see the light of day using the Eterne tub... APC anyone!?

Edited by NedaSay

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I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

I bought my Elise when it first came out, and the Mazda MX5 was one of the alternatives at the time. One simple reason why the MX5 was more appealing than the Elise (apart from cost) was that it was easier to live with. Getting in and out was easy. Putting the roof up was easy. It was better built. It had a better boot. For most people, the choice was obvious. Toyota were geared up to make money on this car by building hundreds of thousands of them - something Lotus didn't have the capacity to do anyway.

So it was never really on the cards that the Elise could have been a high volume success (not in global terms), even though in Lotus terms it clearly was.

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You also have to remember Mazda (Ford) had millions to spend on development, Lotus were probably looking down the back of the sofa for a lost fiver.

Personally I don't think all that DB did was wrong.

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Fair points but I still think if a car could be produced at an entry level price which could have upgrade bits available to either buy at a later date or have the option for the more expensive options to be available at the time of purchase it could work. Also if they haven't dumped it dump involvement in Formula 1 and start a clubman series with this new range of small, light, quick well handling cars. Perhaps start small and build on it because for those of us who had a Lotus in the 70's the new generation of potential buyers can perhaps see where this car is coming from.

Edited by B1 RMA

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As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

I agree, John, well said. This thread is full of banal drivel and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. I'm the only one on this with anything sensible and accurate to report. Lucky for you lot Dany and I are down here!

So anyway, we've run out of gentlemen's relish. Dany had some ideas about how we could replenish our stocks, but we've agreed never to mention that conversation again. Now he's compensating by learning to toboggan. I know, we've had to be inventive about how to make that work down here.

Oh, and Wolverine called. Apparently, the three wheeler has been switched off. Turns out Dany's brilliant idea to exploit the gap in the market left by Reliant, by launching an overpriced, under-specced three wheeler with no roof, engine, or anything, made out stuff lying about the place and then marketed as a British underdog by painting it in the colours of a WWII spitfire, has already been done. Bloody Morgan, who develop a new car every time the tree they carve it from matures, beat Lotus to it. Man, Dany has had some rotten luck recently. Poor bloke. And it's showing too. His tan is getting blotchy and he's stopped wearing his girdle completely.

New guy is all about compact and budget now. The first New New Era car is going to be a two seater sports coupe convertible Gen2. Then Lotus are going to sponsor Iceland frozen party buckets in order to take the brand to their new customer base. Then the Savvy is going to be entered into the British Touring Car Championships. Then will come the 'Engineered By Proton' Lotus range. New guy's plan is with Proton doing the ride and handling, Lotus can concentrate on not going bust. Dany thinks it's a crap plan and he's a marketing marathon, so I'm with him. New guy's plan is pants. I mean, what does he know? I heard he worked as a car parking attendant at Heathrow. Is that true? Dany thinks it is.

Right, off to build a sled run around the chemical toilet.

The rest of you need to grow up and stop writing self-serving, juvenile pish and start reporting real actual facts. Like me.

Anything from the bunker to report??

Don't worry. We've still got nine years, three hundred and fifty five days down here.

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As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

Some of us appreciate creative writing. :thumbsup: Those who don't are not forced to read it....(!)

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Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

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Yep - the V25 Enorm - it was to be the worlds first roof engined 25 seater premium minibus (what we in Britain call an SUV). Do keep up, chap. This is golddust I'm spilling here. Not the puerile pap you lot keep pumping out. We need to keep this thread serious and factual, otherwise people who don't want to read this stuff may come onto this thread and then accidentally read this stuff. I know! Shocker!

Right, Dany and I are off to toss for who gets most of the duvet tonight.

With a coin. See, John was right. Juvenile and puerile.

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I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

I agree 100%. My GTV has just about had it and so I need to replace it soon. The existing Elise is a car I've looked at a few times but as much as I love it as a concept, I couldn't use it as my main car. The MX5 just has that little added practicality, its also fantastically cheap and given the circumstances when I will be genuinely using it, I probably don't need that much more pace etc.

Lotus could only replicate this type of added practicality profitably in two ways, either take a successor a little up-market so it kicks off at about £45,000 (similar money to a Boxster and would have a similar price and spec to the Alfa Romeo 4C). A fully optioned up V6 engined Exige version could sell for up to £70,000 or even £80,000 perhaps, and give Lotus a relatively big and also profitable seller (which isn't really that different I think to Mr Bahar's plan for the Elise other than the slightly higher entry price and I would hope more sales than the 1500 he wanted to sell to keep Lotus exclusive!)

The other main option would be to go down the joint venture route. A top Toyota boss said in the last few weeks that after the success of collaborating with Subaru on the GT86 they would look at other collaborations to create niche halo models (new MR2?). Kia have said that if they could justify it they would want a sportscar. And Renault might want a partner to relaunch the Alpine marque. I think realistically this could be the best option for Lotus, the partner gets the entry level version to sell through their extensive dealership network, and Lotus gets a racier more exclusive and expensive version. Lotus could provide the chassis and the partner could perhaps build both the cars in one of their factories to keep prices low, allowing Hethel to concentrate on the Evora and Esprit.

There could be one other option. I read an interview with Gordon Murray a year or two ago, when he discussed his 60's Lotus Elan and how he thought he could produce a successor using his Istream production process. I'm almost sure he said in it that he could position the car in the space left by the Elise as its price has gone up so much from when it was introduced. Could a slightly more practical Elise developed in conjunction with Gordon Murray Design and costing MX5 money be the answer? I guess the big problem is that Lotus wouldn't have the sales network to shift the car in big enough volumes and it would sit uneasily with the up-market new Esprit.

For me my Lotus dreams look ever distant unfortunately so I think I may have to turn to the MX5 in the next few months, and while it won't appeal to me emotionally in the way a Lotus would I think it will be the right choice....... for now!

Edited by Gus82

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As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

I totally agree, this thread is very boring, so I'm glad to be getting these serious reports from the bunker to brighten it up.

I'm just concerned that Dany doesn't have any femail company down there, or maybe his not into that and happy to make do.

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Perhaps you'd be better illustrating what you're thinking with a picture Darryl? :lol:

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Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

Well even before DB Lotus had thoughts about SUV... Lotus came up with the APC to show case both the VVA and a compact 3.0 VVT V6 design back in the day! APC rights were sold to two companies that were supposed to build an hybrid crossover. Lotus did also collaborate with the Carbon Motor Company on a proposition for the US police cars.

So let's imagine they had managed to get Eterne out the doors. What would stop them then really! Porsche has a crossover, soon a second one, Maserati and Lambo are getting one, Jaguar is working on it. Aston Martin too. Really if Lotus can do it they better do it! Regardless of the few who will be outraged by it. if it can return a profit then they ought to do it!

VVA is the key to Lotus survival for me!

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Hah! Who is this Kitman anyway? What does he know? Has he ever lived with a newly ex-boss of Lotus in a nuclear bunker? Course he hasn't! I bet he didn't even know that the Baldwin brothers alone signed up for twenty five Esprits each. All Dany had to do was arrange a few straight-to-DVD movie deals and a flight on his private jet. Sharon agreed to a heavily photoshopped bikini photo shoot of herself spread liberally across the Elite. Everyone in Hollywood agreed to buy the electric-only Ethos (not to drive, mind, that would be stupid, just to say that they had one, obviously). And, anyway, did Kitman even know that Dany was secretly working to a two and a half year plan - which he's fully delivered on? Course he didn't. Journo's know nothing of the pressures poor Dany has been under. And what does Kitman know about the Evora anyway? Yeah it won a load of awards and is considered to be one of the best handling cars on the market. And it's unique packaging makes it the worlds only mid mounted two plus two. But so what? Dany realised the Evora was fundamentally flawed and wasn't nearly as good as a bunch of new cars that didn't exist. So why would he listen to the market, industry experts, journalists, or Lotus customers, when he's got a line of celebs queuing up to offer luke warm enforcements of a product range that they know nothing about. Hah! Dany is a marketing colossus.

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Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

Well even before DB Lotus had thoughts about SUV... Lotus came up with the APC to show case both the VVA and a compact 3.0 VVT V6 design back in the day! APC rights were sold to two companies that were supposed to build an hybrid crossover. Lotus did also collaborate with the Carbon Motor Company on a proposition for the US police cars.

VVA is the key to Lotus survival for me!

It was actually called the APX and the supercharged V6 was an inhouse design (where is this engine?!) and would've kicked a$$ in the crossover market. :smoke: Pity they licensed it to ZAP, the etherware electric car company, which sent it into a black hole. Actually, Lotus Engineering has quite a bit of experience in this market and did a proof of concept exercise where they took 38% of the weight off of a for only 3% of the cost. Lotus could definitely do worse than dabbling in one of the biggest worldwide market segments. 911 owners have a lot to thank the Cayenne for...

Agree on the VVA, a genius legacy design that even Dany couldn't shake. I think it's quite telling that despite the grandiose plans, the current model evolutions that continue to excite (Exige V6, Evora GTE, etc) were set in motion by MJK and taking advantage of the VVA allowing the designs to fast-track. The Esprit/MES won't come to market without taking advantage of similar underpinnings which it was originally designed to do. :unworthy:

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Whatever keeps the ship afloat, I wouldn't buy a Lotus Cayenne, but then I wouldn't buy a Landrover Evoque either, but there's a big market out there and you just know Lotus could do a great job.

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