Bahar Suspended

[molemot]

As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

Some of us appreciate creative writing. Those who don't are not forced to read it....(!)

[Moxie]

Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

That's a scary thought!

[Iconic Ride]

[Suddabym]

Yep - the V25 Enorm - it was to be the worlds first roof engined 25 seater premium minibus (what we in Britain call an SUV). Do keep up, chap. This is golddust I'm spilling here. Not the puerile pap you lot keep pumping out. We need to keep this thread serious and factual, otherwise people who don't want to read this stuff may come onto this thread and then accidentally read this stuff. I know! Shocker!

Right, Dany and I are off to toss for who gets most of the duvet tonight.

With a coin. See, John was right. Juvenile and puerile.

[ramjet]

Mark,

Did Dany ever give you any answers to these questions?

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/51382-bahar-suspended/page__st__320#entry415323

[Gus82]

I know it's a bit late in the day and that the Mazda MX5 has stole the market but I still think Lotus should bring out an almost retro 70's style Elan just a basic inexpensive car which can have about 30 variations/options going right up to an all out track day car. I'm still conviced that this will bring in a bread and butter stable source of revenue which will allow things like the Esprit to be developed.

I agree 100%. My GTV has just about had it and so I need to replace it soon. The existing Elise is a car I've looked at a few times but as much as I love it as a concept, I couldn't use it as my main car. The MX5 just has that little added practicality, its also fantastically cheap and given the circumstances when I will be genuinely using it, I probably don't need that much more pace etc.

Lotus could only replicate this type of added practicality profitably in two ways, either take a successor a little up-market so it kicks off at about £45,000 (similar money to a Boxster and would have a similar price and spec to the Alfa Romeo 4C). A fully optioned up V6 engined Exige version could sell for up to £70,000 or even £80,000 perhaps, and give Lotus a relatively big and also profitable seller (which isn't really that different I think to Mr Bahar's plan for the Elise other than the slightly higher entry price and I would hope more sales than the 1500 he wanted to sell to keep Lotus exclusive!)

The other main option would be to go down the joint venture route. A top Toyota boss said in the last few weeks that after the success of collaborating with Subaru on the GT86 they would look at other collaborations to create niche halo models (new MR2?). Kia have said that if they could justify it they would want a sportscar. And Renault might want a partner to relaunch the Alpine marque. I think realistically this could be the best option for Lotus, the partner gets the entry level version to sell through their extensive dealership network, and Lotus gets a racier more exclusive and expensive version. Lotus could provide the chassis and the partner could perhaps build both the cars in one of their factories to keep prices low, allowing Hethel to concentrate on the Evora and Esprit.

There could be one other option. I read an interview with Gordon Murray a year or two ago, when he discussed his 60's Lotus Elan and how he thought he could produce a successor using his Istream production process. I'm almost sure he said in it that he could position the car in the space left by the Elise as its price has gone up so much from when it was introduced. Could a slightly more practical Elise developed in conjunction with Gordon Murray Design and costing MX5 money be the answer? I guess the big problem is that Lotus wouldn't have the sales network to shift the car in big enough volumes and it would sit uneasily with the up-market new Esprit.

For me my Lotus dreams look ever distant unfortunately so I think I may have to turn to the MX5 in the next few months, and while it won't appeal to me emotionally in the way a Lotus would I think it will be the right choice....... for now!

Edited June 16, 2012 by Gus82

[Mark Blanchard]

As for this topic, it has deteriorated mostly into self-serving parody and juvenile wit, which is quite boring to read for the most part.

I totally agree, this thread is very boring, so I'm glad to be getting these serious reports from the bunker to brighten it up.

I'm just concerned that Dany doesn't have any femail company down there, or maybe his not into that and happy to make do.

[DarrylV8]

Mark B what are you saying?? or am i thinking like a juvenile?

[Bibs]

Perhaps you'd be better illustrating what you're thinking with a picture Darryl?

[Bibs]

Where Bahar went wrong - Jamie Kitman

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/where-dany-bahar-steered-lotus-wrong-road-back-164141124.html?page=all

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Very interesting article...

[NedaSay]

Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

Well even before DB Lotus had thoughts about SUV... Lotus came up with the APC to show case both the VVA and a compact 3.0 VVT V6 design back in the day! APC rights were sold to two companies that were supposed to build an hybrid crossover. Lotus did also collaborate with the Carbon Motor Company on a proposition for the US police cars.

So let's imagine they had managed to get Eterne out the doors. What would stop them then really! Porsche has a crossover, soon a second one, Maserati and Lambo are getting one, Jaguar is working on it. Aston Martin too. Really if Lotus can do it they better do it! Regardless of the few who will be outraged by it. if it can return a profit then they ought to do it!

VVA is the key to Lotus survival for me!

[Suddabym]

Hah! Who is this Kitman anyway? What does he know? Has he ever lived with a newly ex-boss of Lotus in a nuclear bunker? Course he hasn't! I bet he didn't even know that the Baldwin brothers alone signed up for twenty five Esprits each. All Dany had to do was arrange a few straight-to-DVD movie deals and a flight on his private jet. Sharon agreed to a heavily photoshopped bikini photo shoot of herself spread liberally across the Elite. Everyone in Hollywood agreed to buy the electric-only Ethos (not to drive, mind, that would be stupid, just to say that they had one, obviously). And, anyway, did Kitman even know that Dany was secretly working to a two and a half year plan - which he's fully delivered on? Course he didn't. Journo's know nothing of the pressures poor Dany has been under. And what does Kitman know about the Evora anyway? Yeah it won a load of awards and is considered to be one of the best handling cars on the market. And it's unique packaging makes it the worlds only mid mounted two plus two. But so what? Dany realised the Evora was fundamentally flawed and wasn't nearly as good as a bunch of new cars that didn't exist. So why would he listen to the market, industry experts, journalists, or Lotus customers, when he's got a line of celebs queuing up to offer luke warm enforcements of a product range that they know nothing about. Hah! Dany is a marketing colossus.

[yeller77]

Question: If Lotus, theoretically, could produce a city compact (Ethos) and a speedy sedan (Eterne), did Dany and Coco ever toy with an SUV, beyond the Youngman thing?

Please, no juvenile replies. This is a gentlemen's club...you degenerates.

Well even before DB Lotus had thoughts about SUV... Lotus came up with the APC to show case both the VVA and a compact 3.0 VVT V6 design back in the day! APC rights were sold to two companies that were supposed to build an hybrid crossover. Lotus did also collaborate with the Carbon Motor Company on a proposition for the US police cars.

VVA is the key to Lotus survival for me!

It was actually called the APX and the supercharged V6 was an inhouse design (where is this engine?!) and would've kicked a$$ in the crossover market. Pity they licensed it to ZAP, the etherware electric car company, which sent it into a black hole. Actually, Lotus Engineering has quite a bit of experience in this market and did a proof of concept exercise where they took 38% of the weight off of a for only 3% of the cost. Lotus could definitely do worse than dabbling in one of the biggest worldwide market segments. 911 owners have a lot to thank the Cayenne for...

Agree on the VVA, a genius legacy design that even Dany couldn't shake. I think it's quite telling that despite the grandiose plans, the current model evolutions that continue to excite (Exige V6, Evora GTE, etc) were set in motion by MJK and taking advantage of the VVA allowing the designs to fast-track. The Esprit/MES won't come to market without taking advantage of similar underpinnings which it was originally designed to do.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Whatever keeps the ship afloat, I wouldn't buy a Lotus Cayenne, but then I wouldn't buy a Landrover Evoque either, but there's a big market out there and you just know Lotus could do a great job.

[Suddabym]

We did discuss getting a chick down here, but can you imagine? We'd have to tidy up, empty the chemical toilet more than once a year, do some cleaning and listen to 'their day'. So we've agreed that we're better off without an actual woman down here. There are disadvantages of course, but we've solved this by allocating personal time on the chemical toilet. And that seems to be working and we have the advantage of drinking beer in our underpants and talking marketing without a woman huffing the whole time.

Dany wants to know if his London Lotus Originals store has opened yet? He kinda needs some more Lotus Originals Y-fronts, you see.

Ferrari called. Apparently, they laughed a lot and then put the phone down. Dany wasn't amused.

The APX was actually the secret test mule to the now scrapped Enorm, apparently. Although, Dany says that they were planning a slightly more interesting colour and more rocket pods.

Dany says all those of you (who are still reading this thread and haven't moved onto the newer, more grown up one that's just been started that he isn't going to read on principle) who doubts his awesomeness should go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Then you'll see just how flippin fantastic Dany's marketing mind really is. He's sworn me to secrecy, but it does sound pretty good. Dany knows His Earlness the Duke of Lord March, so he's going on Thursday, incognito. He's also going to pick up some Lotus Originals Y-fronts while he's there (if the more exlusive London store hasn't opened by then) and set fire to the Ferrari stand.

Well, now let's see. Dany says that there was a plan to rename the Redbull Air Race, to 'You don't have to be stupid, but... Air Race'. Then they considered 'Who would do this... Air Race' but they finally agreed on 'Air Miles for Dany Air Race', but then Dany left, so they canned the whole rebranding thing. New cars included the Enorm and three wheeler already exclusively brought to you. Other than that, there was a plan for a premium lifestyle exclusive luxury submarine Elise until Dany found out that someone had already done that, which annoyed him. Was that it? I can't remember.

Gotta go; Dany needs the IPad to send out more hate mail to various motoring industry journalists.

[cnapan]

Whatever keeps the ship afloat, I wouldn't buy a Lotus Cayenne, but then I wouldn't buy a Landrover Evoque either, but there's a big market out there and you just know Lotus could do a great job.

One reason I hate Porsche so much (in a 'they are so good, damn them' sort of way) is that rather than look down their noses at the SUV market, they realised they could make obscene amounts of money transporting their brand into that space. They realised that SUVs are basically what people who want sportscars choose instead when they need to ship the family around, so why not take 60-90k off them for the privilege?

In a way, the SUV has been a godsend for car manufacturers. Sure, it costs a bit more to assemble all that extra metal and plastic, but then you can charge a 20-30% premium over an 'ordinary' car that actually does precisely the same job for 99.999% of the owners of such vehicles.

In a way (this is going to sound a bit harsh), it's a bit like the sportscar market, where 99% of the time, super-speedy cars are doing nothing other than bimbling around town.

For many owners in both camps, it's the idea of knowing your car 'could' do this extra stuff. That's why they'll shell out the extra money for these exotic vehicles - be it a new Esprit or a new Cayenne.

If Lotus were building an SUV right now, it would be a good thing, because it would indicate that they're basically fixed as a company. That they can't do one right now is just the reality of being so far behind the curve and needing to catch up.

Good luck!

[TBD]

C'mon, where should Lotus get the money to develop an SUV? Remember, the Cayenne was sponsored by VW, who call the same vehicle Tuareg. The Audi Q7 is a further derivative of the same chassis, as will be the Lamboughini SUV.

Won't happen unless Lotus is sold to one of the big boys.

[yeller77]

The APX was actually the secret test mule to the now scrapped Enorm, apparently. Although, Dany says that they were planning a slightly more interesting colour and more rocket pods.

Soon to be followed by the Enorm S, undoubtedly. Did I steal someone's joke.

[Moxie]

Actually, Lotus Engineering has quite a bit of experience in this market and did a proof of concept exercise where they took 38% of the weight off of a Toyota Venza crossover for only 3% of the cost.

That's incredible.

[DanR]

Lotus and SUV's? Porsche has always had a working partnership with VW. That relationship enabled them to amortise costs on many models over several decades.

Lotus doesn't seem to have had similar extensive benefits from the manufacturers it's been associated with over the years.

[Iconic Ride]

"Soon to be followed by the Enorm S..."

(As a Sequoia owner, I can relate.)

[Suddabym]

Enorm S! Ha ha, that's hilarious! I so hadn't got to that yet.

First time Dany has genuinely laughed since he's been down here. Clearly the marketing department hadn't worked the full range of Enorms through. They'd only got up to the Enorm T, and the Enorm S-P. Soooo, childish, no wonder there's a break away thread for grown ups.

[molemot]

"Grown ups? Seen them...don't want to end up like that!!"

A quote from my old chum Bonzo....and, so far, we haven't.