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I don't see the marketing benefit of a car with your name on wining a Grand Prix when you have little to sell in major markets such as the USA.  DB would have done better to invest some if that money he wasted into keeping the Elise and the Evora up to speed with the American regulations rather than living on waivers that would, and have, expired.  I'm with Kimbers on this one.

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£20m for 7 years branding in F1 (especially on the top step) is pretty good value whichever way you look at it though.

 

I'm not privy to figures but would think that Head & Shoulders spent more and I'm not sure what they get out of the spend! 

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I agree, head and shoulders in F1 is a bit "flaky" to me - had me scratching my head.

 

With all the talk about how much DB spent, surely it was with someones blessing at Proton?  They must have sanctioned this so someone in Malaysia must also be accountable?

Edited by Nelly9000

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The then Proton Chairman Syed Zainal - He lost his job at the same time as Bahar.

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While Lotus was marginally profitable when MJK left, it also had little future with its then line up of cars and year-to-year ongoing federal exemptions. DB had a vision (money or not) to take Lotus from the turnip field mentality to a true super car company, and brand recognition for Lotus in F1 was a major win (and still is).  After all, Lotus was synonymous with F1 at the height of its fame and it's great to see it again.  The current cars are tired and played out, there's nothing new on the horizon, DRB are doing an even worse job of PR than pre-DB Lotus (which I never thought possible) so I'll take anything positive right now which is F1

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From the turnip field.... too true! 

 

As you say at least DB had a vision and the sad thing is part of it's finally working out, i.e. F1 success. 

 

DRB have owned Lotus for over a year now, no big announcements, no plans, nothing of subtance. The Exige S is a potential winner but the massive delay's have knocked potential sales and publicity now. The Evora's still got some life in it, ( I would say that ! ) but it's an underrated and misunderstood car that would need a serious relaunch to grab peoples imagination and attention.

 

I've no  idea where that leaves Lotus... and on past form DRB aren't likely to enlighten us either. 

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Yeah I agree Trev. Bahar virtually killed the product in America. The guys in the US told me that he cut their marketing budget to $0 and told them that his Hollywood parties would do the trick.....take into account that the Marketing budget included press cars, Stock for Dealer events, Marketing for dealers, advertising etc.

 

Then you are right. It almost seemed like he wanted to kill the Evora.....strange cause I heard he loved it...... :huh:

 

But where he had vision, as I said before, implementing is another matter and taking your focus off homologation is the biggest no no you can do!

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Why didn't the Evora have 'smart airbags' in the first place? Every other car in the USA has them by the looks of it so it can't be that expensive. Why weren't they designed into it when the USA was meant to account for 50% of the cars sales?

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While Lotus was marginally profitable when MJK left, it also had little future with its then line up of cars and year-to-year ongoing federal exemptions. DB had a vision (money or not) to take Lotus from the turnip field mentality to a true super car company, and brand recognition for Lotus in F1 was a major win (and still is).  After all, Lotus was synonymous with F1 at the height of its fame and it's great to see it again.  The current cars are tired and played out, there's nothing new on the horizon, DRB are doing an even worse job of PR than pre-DB Lotus (which I never thought possible) so I'll take anything positive right now which is F1

 

FMXA. They made £1.5 Million for the first profit in 10 years. And with no loans or debts this was pure profit, not an interest payment as it would have been and is now under Bahar! Far be it for me to say what Lotus were doing under MJK, it's not like I knew anything. But even Car magazine had articles on MJK's Lotus 5 yr plan!

 

A select few, including members here had already seen the New Esprit, which under MJK would have been out a year ago! There was a brand new Elise and Exige next followed by a new "Supercar" in 2015! Add in to that the 211 and a planned collaboration model then if anything MJK's team would have had a better line up than Bahars plan!! And it was perfectly feasible unlike the aforementioned plan!

 

At least 3 of those cars (the New Elise, Evora and Esprit) would have been homologated for the USA.

 

I do agree the F1 side was a good move but when you consider that MJK spent only £80 million on a new Model (Evora) it seems a big chunk.

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But the MJK Esprit styling was as bland as the Evora's is and would most likely have suffered from similar dire sales. No wonder Bahar wanted to start again.

 

 

If I recall correctly, MJK pushed the Evora and cancelled the V6 Exige development. Y'know, the car which was rejuvenated under Bahar's tenure and now has a waiting list of real customers and not a fleet load of "Manager" cars.

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Bland may never be the height of fashion but it doesn't then go out of fashion easily or quickly. With low volume production you need maximum realistic production longevity else you spend a fortune redesigning every few years (which higher volume do) and cannot spread the cost over 1000s of production units.

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the MJK Esprit styling was as bland as the Evora's

 

can anyone post a photo of this Esprit please?

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Bland & supercar don't go hand in hand...

Some people accuse the MP4-12C of being bland, which I suppose it could be compared to the Lambo's and Fessa. I like to think of it as restrained and rather classy, but I still can't afford one! 

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Bland & supercar don't go hand in hand...

But there is bland and supercar bland. The Evora doesn't have such extreme styling that it goes out of fashion 12-24 months after initial design but it's not so bland as to blend in with a group of family hatchbacks. Any future Lotus design would also have to be of the moment but not so extreme as to need a re-design 1 year after release.

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But the MJK Esprit styling was as bland as the Evora's is and would most likely have suffered from similar dire sales. No wonder Bahar wanted to start again.

 

 

If I recall correctly, MJK pushed the Evora and cancelled the V6 Exige development. Y'know, the car which was rejuvenated under Bahar's tenure and now has a waiting list of real customers and not a fleet load of "Manager" cars.

 

Go wash your mouth, dude! That Exige V6 was cancelled by Bahar and his team, he cancelled f*cking EVERYTHING!

Only at very last grasp, as he was finally back for a day with his 2 feet on planet earth, he started to realize all the money from the loan was virtually spent and he still needed at LEAST an extra £250 million to bring the very first model to production. As a drowning person Bahar and his team then grabbed back to Exige V6... Before the Exige V6 was NEVER on their cards!!!!

Try to get the facts straight! :realmad:

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But the MJK Esprit styling was as bland as the Evora's is and would most likely have suffered from similar dire sales. No wonder Bahar wanted to start again.

 

 

If I recall correctly, MJK pushed the Evora and cancelled the V6 Exige development. Y'know, the car which was rejuvenated under Bahar's tenure and now has a waiting list of real customers and not a fleet load of "Manager" cars.

You have your information very wrong. MJK didn't cancel the V6 Exige, Bahar did but then had to reinstate it to try and recover some of his escalating/out of control expenditure. Also MJK was responsible for canning MSC due it not being good enough and putting emphasis on the Evora. Unfortunately it was launchedat the height of the recession.....

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FMXA. They made £1.5 Million for the first profit in 10 years. And with no loans or debts this was pure profit, not an interest payment as it would have been and is now under Bahar! Far be it for me to say what Lotus were doing under MJK, it's not like I knew anything. But even Car magazine had articles on MJK's Lotus 5 yr plan!

 

A select few, including members here had already seen the New Esprit, which under MJK would have been out a year ago! There was a brand new Elise and Exige next followed by a new "Supercar" in 2015! Add in to that the 211 and a planned collaboration model then if anything MJK's team would have had a better line up than Bahars plan!! And it was perfectly feasible unlike the aforementioned plan!

 

At least 3 of those cars (the New Elise, Evora and Esprit) would have been homologated for the USA.

 

I do agree the F1 side was a good move but when you consider that MJK spent only £80 million on a new Model (Evora) it seems a big chunk.

 

I saw the MSC clay in the studio around 2007 or 2008 (and the drawing of the convertible was truly stunning), but to think the original 5 year plan models would have been better than the DB cars is nuts ...  BTW I have the greatest respect for your dad and without him I doubt Lotus cars would even exist today.

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I saw the MSC clay in the studio around 2007 or 2008 (and the drawing of the convertible was truly stunning), but to think the original 5 year plan models would have been better than the DB cars is nuts ...  BTW I have the greatest respect for your dad and without him I doubt Lotus cars would even exist today.

 

I disagree, the 5 year plan was the only plan I ever heard for Lotus, that had sufficient financial funding. It was not a plan with only IFs and clay models, but a workable plan which would lead into a full line up of cars.

I'm really starting to get annoyed of people claiming in here that Bahar actually had a good plan, except from the F1 and the new facilities in Hethel. So to 80% of this forum members please sum up what Bahar did good or succeed in and what Lotus is benefiting from today. I can't wait to see the list!

Edited by Exploded

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