free hit
counters
Bahar Suspended - Page 4 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums - Official Lotus Community Partner Jump to content


IGNORED

Bahar Suspended


Recommended Posts

Chassis - all the new models bar the city car are based on the Evora chassis, which has been universally acclaimed as being the best ever made, and is 2.6x stiffer than the older Elise/Exige tech. Even the new Exige V6 is using the Evora back end. So tick the chassis box.

Engine - they have an exceptionally versatile drive train with the Toyota/Lexus enginer/gearbox combo which can be tuned and tweak from 276bhp right up to 600bhp depending on ECU, air intake, exhaust, SC and other gubbins. Additionally they have gone on record to say their in-house V8 has already been soak-tested and run on the Hethel circuit via a mule. Sounds to me like that is about ready for production. So tick the engine/drivetrain box then.

Marketing/motorsport - DB has done more positive things for the Lotus brand, image and marketing than any CEO before him bar Chapman himself,

No, the issue at hand here is that DIB-Hicom are essentially scuttling Lotus and for no good reason other than their own internal boardroom politics, allegiances and overall, a lot of ignorance and arrogance,

Firstly, you need to get your facts straight.

Colin was Never CEO, he was Chairman. My father was MD/CEO under Colin (post 1978, he was MD of the car company before that, technical director before that etc) and After Colin. Its more complicated than this as Group and Cars were seperate entities then. Incidently, did I mention that my Father and Colin started up Lotus Engineering as well? Has that been a success?

He is attributed with saving the company 3 times from Bankruptcy, the most recently just a few years ago. Mr Bahar wouldn't have had a company to run if it wasn't for MJK.

Both of the elements you listed above as "universally acclaimed" and "Exceptionally versatile" were introduced by My father (Then CEO) and Roger Becker.

So I take issue with your comment about Bahar being the most successful. Big time!

So lets look at your comment that "DB has done more for positive things for the Lotus brand, image and marketing ,".

He (DB) introduced an "Italian" line of clothing and got into many motorsports...which he backed out of recently (or is being sued by) because the company was in financial problems.

The image has been temporarily raised, I agree, but in the US its only been tarnished and what next? It was just a month ago that they were talking about Administration.

Then finally you talk about the new owners "ignorance and arrogance". When all they are doing is investigating what they call irregularities and have no intention of closing Lotus down. They may sell it but they have said they want to sell it as a going concern, or maybe even keep it themselves if they need to get it straight first.

Please be sure of what you say before saying it. Get your facts straight or state they are your opinion only.

The above are facts and not my opinions.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

quite agree john, it is often politics that get in the way of a companies success, or the recent desire to quickly grow at an unsustainable rate and sell after a couple of years rather than running a longer term concern and plan. There also seem to be very few uk people investing locally...probably for the above reason busy chasing quick wins in the emerging markets than looking for a stable return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly, you need to get your facts straight.

Colin was Never CEO, he was Chairman. My father was MD/CEO under Colin (post 1978, he was MD of the car company before that, technical director before that etc) and After Colin. Its more complicated than this as Group and Cars were seperate entities then. Incidently, did I mention that my Father and Colin started up Lotus Engineering as well? Has that been a success?

He is attributed with saving the company 3 times from Bankruptcy, the most recently just a few years ago. Mr Bahar wouldn't have had a company to run if it wasn't for MJK.

Both of the elements you listed above as "universally acclaimed" and "Exceptionally versatile" were introduced by My father (Then CEO) and Roger Becker.

So I take issue with your comment about Bahar being the most successful. Big time!

So lets look at your comment that "DB has done more for positive things for the Lotus brand, image and marketing ,".

He (DB) introduced an "Italian" line of clothing and got into many motorsports...which he backed out of recently (or is being sued by) because the company was in financial problems.

The image has been temporarily raised, I agree, but in the US its only been tarnished and what next? It was just a month ago that they were talking about Administration.

Then finally you talk about the new owners "ignorance and arrogance". When all they are doing is investigating what they call irregularities and have no intention of closing Lotus down. They may sell it but they have said they want to sell it as a going concern, or maybe even keep it themselves if they need to get it straight first.

Please be sure of what you say before saying it. Get your facts straight or state they are your opinion only.

The above are facts and not my opinions.

Hey easy mate, I was offering my opinion, not a thesis. I respect your father's legacy with Lotus and was not intending to undermine his hard work over many decades for a moment.

However the fact is I had no interest in Lotus cars until the Evora IPS MY11 came along, and correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of what is good about the MY11/12 Evoras is a result of the DB era post 2009 yes?

I fall into the 'new demographic' - that is, a Porsche or Merc buyer who has been lured into Lotus ownership because of the most recent product offerings and improvements, not because of the marque's history.

What is patently clear is that DIB-Hicom are dealing with internal 'expense claim' issues in an amateurish and absurd manner that is harming the brand value with each day that goes by without a clear leadership plan and product vision.

DB might be the polarising "marmite MD", but I like what he's done and if he truly was incompetent do you think the Beckers et al would still be hanging around?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just remember one thing guys;

This is not our fight ...it may be our concern and /or interest but not our fight.Whatever happened in the past has absolutely no bearing on where it is now nor was it a creation of us being enthusiasts.

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should probably exercise better judgment and think about recusing yourself from these type of threads .....

Firstly, you need to get your facts straight.

Colin was Never CEO, he was Chairman. My father was MD/CEO under Colin (post 1978, he was MD of the car company before that, technical director before that etc) and After Colin. Its more complicated than this as Group and Cars were seperate entities then. Incidently, did I mention that my Father and Colin started up Lotus Engineering as well? Has that been a success?

He is attributed with saving the company 3 times from Bankruptcy, the most recently just a few years ago. Mr Bahar wouldn't have had a company to run if it wasn't for MJK.

Both of the elements you listed above as "universally acclaimed" and "Exceptionally versatile" were introduced by My father (Then CEO) and Roger Becker.

So I take issue with your comment about Bahar being the most successful. Big time!

So lets look at your comment that "DB has done more for positive things for the Lotus brand, image and marketing ,".

He (DB) introduced an "Italian" line of clothing and got into many motorsports...which he backed out of recently (or is being sued by) because the company was in financial problems.

The image has been temporarily raised, I agree, but in the US its only been tarnished and what next? It was just a month ago that they were talking about Administration.

Then finally you talk about the new owners "ignorance and arrogance". When all they are doing is investigating what they call irregularities and have no intention of closing Lotus down. They may sell it but they have said they want to sell it as a going concern, or maybe even keep it themselves if they need to get it straight first.

Please be sure of what you say before saying it. Get your facts straight or state they are your opinion only.

The above are facts and not my opinions.

Paddle Faster, I hear Banjos!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The dispute (assuming no criminal liability) in legal terms, proceeds from the terms of the Contract...Rights to remuneration and shares are usually written in detail into the contract of employment....if either party claims the the contract has been breached the usual remedy sought is to enforce the terms of the contract ...ie. to pay/repay the "fair share"; however the breach might be so serious that the parties might claim that the contract has been repudiated ie completely at an end and unenforceable.

It does get messy then, and the usual outcome is some kind of settlement deal incorporating the departure of the employee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've just spoken with the factory and DRB-Hicom and neither have anything to add to the DRB statement at this time.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should probably exercise better judgment and think about recusing yourself from these type of threads .....

I understand what you are saying Trev. But I will not see history re-written and historical inaccuracies given weight to, Especially if I consider something said either besmirches the reputation of my father or doesn't give him credit for something I know to be fact and therefore true. He can't comment himself to protect his reputation or history due to.....certain issues.

I don't "want" or "need" to be involved in this conversation you are right. And I will make no further comment as long as inaccuracies and downright lies aren't mentioned in conjunction with previous Lotus Management.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was just a month ago that they were talking about Administration.

'They' being journalists with their own agenda ie Joe Saward. There was no foundation in those stories.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find Steve Davies is one journalist who has a more balanced view and also has hooks into Lotus and indeed was facilitating talks involving DB. More here http://skiddmark.com/2012/05/rumours-abound-of-lotus-ceo-dany-bahars-suspension/

@Kimbers - I apologise if you thought I was lying or trying to discredit anyone; I am not a Lotus historian, just a new Lotus (Feb 2012) owner with a vested interest in wanting to keep the group remain viable, if only so I can buy more products :)

From my perspective DB was good for the company but I completely understand and respect that this view is not universally shared.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the end history will be written by the winners.

Whilst DB was be in charge he was getting good PR and taking the credit for great new vehicles coming out of Hethel. If he does not come back then it will quickly be pointed out that the new Evora versions, the V6 Exige and the new Esprit were all part of the product plan before he joined.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However despite the endless DB issues you have to give him credit for getting on top on the quality issues, ie the MY12 which really was only the car the Evora should've been at the launch. My biggest concern is that the accountants take over, cut production times and rush cars out the factory doors.

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

God: "Yes, Colin, what was it you wanted to see me about?"

Chapman: "Evenin' your Eminence. Was hoping to ask for your assistance in an ongoing matter down below. You see, as I know you do...being omniscient and all that..., there's quite an altercation going on with my life's work enterprise and its very survival."

God: "Go on."

Chapman: "Well, my earthbound current protege is experiencing some difficulties with his new bosses. Something to do with a kitchen remodel...or maybe it was that trip to Vegas last month...I'm not really sure. Quite a lot of speculation going on with the paparazzi at the moment."

God: "Continue."

Chapman: "Seems they've even taken away his laptop and mobile, and the poor bloke isn't able to properly participate in the social media circles so necessary in today's web driven environment. He's essentially 'tweetless,' and it's taking an emotional toll."

God: "And?"

Chapman: "I was hoping you might perform a small 'miracle' on his behalf, and see your way fit to restore his laptop and phone to his personal possession. Some sort of quantum tunneling contrivance. The ususual marvel of magical material revival."

God: "You are aware of the follow on effects when I do these types of requests, Colin? Creates all kinds of havoc with the masses. Shrines, cults, new sects, conspiracy theories and the like. Gets very messy sometimes."

Chapman: "Yes, I know it's a lot to ask, what with all the other marques' past owners up here always badgering you for similar favours. But I really think it best that the poor soul be given back his interweb voice. It's only fair that he be given the chance to express his views on the matters in question. And what's the harm in a little Twitter and Facebook activity anyway? I'm sure at this point he's in serious need of a little venting. And, in any event, he'll definitely need both devices to find new work if he's actually let go."

God: "And what of the possible legal ramifications if I permit this to happen? Won't his barristers go absolutely bonkers if he breaks his silence?"

Chapman: "Well, yes, there is a certain amount of risk involved, but he's a fellow who seems not at all averse to risk taking. Afterall, he's bet the company on an ambitious 5 year plan. Seems a shame to deep six the effort just when the spinnaker's been fully set."

God: "No promises, Colin. But I'll look into it further. Harumph! Taking away a man's laptop. It just don't seem right, mate. I'll see what I can do."

Chapman: "Thank you, your Immenseness."

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd really wish you'd just get it over with and become a playwright.

1983 "Investor's Special Edition" Turbo Esprit (#43/50) | 2012 Evora S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised there is still not notice about the suspension on the Lotus website. DB is still listed as CEO with no mention of any suspension.

Seems a bit unprofessional not even having a press release on the matter.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an ongoing issue, that's why Thomas. DRB have issued a response to the press and that's it until the matter is resolved.

Have we considered that this is a move by DRB to bring in their own CEO who has their interests at heart without having to pay Bahar a severance?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considered and accepted to be honest Bibs.

Ethics policies and papaerwork are being used more and more in the corporate world to remove people without severance.

If you dig deep enough everyone has done something wrong at some stage whether it be getting to drunk at the christmas party to forgetting to knock a mars bar off the petrol expenses. Its the new cowardly way!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's an ongoing issue, that's why Thomas. DRB have issued a response to the press and that's it until the matter is resolved.

I'm sure all the "big players" would at least have posted the press release asap. Its a marketing no-brainer, not doing so is just stupid and ois just asking for rumours.

Have we considered that this is a move by DRB to bring in their own CEO who has their interests at heart without having to pay Bahar a severance?

I've never heard of the severence package playing any role when you really want to fire someone, just like it has never played any role in firing a football trainer. DRB is a multi-billion $ operation, why would they be concerned about DB's potential severance package ? Hell no, you just pay him out, its the only way to condemn him to silence.

It seems much more likely that DB overstretched the contractual loan agreements with Proton and the banks, which was probably the only way to get through the last months. In the end it may have been his ultimate sacrifice to Lotus.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"It seems much more likely that DB overstretched the contractual loan agreements with Proton and the banks, which was probably the only way to get through the last months. In the end it may have been his ultimate sacrifice to Lotus. "

I'm not sure I'm understanding you right. DB sacrifice??? The man has pissed through cash like it's Dec 20, 2012 since he came on board (we all know what the Mayans think). There's ways to draw interest and excitement to the company, and then there is a cash spending orgy like no other for the sake of blowing money. The man bit off way more than the company could afford to chew in the name of flash/bling. Sorry, but I really don't think there was a solid business case here (announcing 5 models at once but so far delivering zip). As the saying goes "i'm from Missouri" (show me!!!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From one link in that report came this "Bahar joined Lotus in 2009 from Ferrari. According to The Daily Telegraph, he is entitled to 5% of the enterprise value of Group Lotus if it is sold or 5% of the value of its shares if the car maker is listed. The report said Bahar is paid a guaranteed annual package of at least £1.2 million, including a £600,000 salary and bonuses."

That's the problem these days around the world. While workers go for years without getting rightly earned merit raises, too many CEO's have sweetheart deals up front and will walk away quite rich for no performance at all. Things should be far more leveraged on what they actually deliver.

Edited by comem47
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never heard of the severence package playing any role when you really want to fire someone, just like it has never played any role in firing a football trainer. DRB is a multi-billion $ operation, why would they be concerned about DB's potential severance package ? Hell no, you just pay him out, its the only way to condemn him to silence.

It seems much more likely that DB overstretched the contractual loan agreements with Proton and the banks, which was probably the only way to get through the last months. In the end it may have been his ultimate sacrifice to Lotus.

Depends on what that severence is really! Its its in the tens of millions then I think I might sell several internal organs to avoid paying it....maybe even sell one of my kids (I have 3 more so thats ok)..... :)

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...