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Assaulted

A sloth named Herman is walking through the forest one day. A gang of snails approach him and beat him up for 7 hours. He is left at the bottom of a tree with several cuts and bruises.

Several hours later, he gathers up enough strength to go to a local police station. Herman walks into the Sergeant's office.

"What happened to you? the officer asks.

"A gang of snails beat me up," Herman replied.

"Can you describe what they looked like?"

"I don't know," the sloth says. "It all happened so fast."


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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:hrhr:

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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If he'd done something which could lead to the termination of his contract I would have thought he would have just been sacked.

I personally believe that DRB have done this to make his position untenable. Innocent or guilty, it would be hard to come back now so much mud has been slung.

I think that this is probably the strategy .Whilst bordering a touchy line ,many would first have to understand the "culture" of the company they keep.Humour me in this one

Without any doubt ,DB ,came into this venture with the credentials and hats off to the selection committee.This however changed with the "new' owners in terms of their business ethos and culture ,perhaps.As the goal posts shift ,so does the vision which includes the rationale of the existing CEO

The new powers that be also have little men that want to build up their own little empires and will pick at every mistake the CEO makes.

In a nutshell ,if the DB is terminated ,highly likely and unfortunate ,i would be extremely concerned about the replacement moreso if they come from the new camp.

For all his mistakes and criticism ,I do think that DB is the best man for the job,,,,,period .


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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Amazed DB has so many supporters, for a company that has lived "hand to mouth" for more than 30 years; spending hundreds of thousands on a rental property is hardly sensible. Just because you have ambitious plans to re-invent a company, and tens (hundreds?) of millions going through the bank account, does not improve the balance sheet, and does not give the right to live like a lord. This is not how a sensible CEO behaves in a business undertaking an investment program

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Amazed DB has so many supporters, for a company that has lived "hand to mouth" for more than 30 years; spending hundreds of thousands on a rental property is hardly sensible. Just because you have ambitious plans to re-invent a company, and tens (hundreds?) of millions going through the bank account, does not improve the balance sheet, and does not give the right to live like a lord. This is not how a sensible CEO behaves in a business undertaking an investment program

motor manufacture is always and will always be volatile.Sports car manufacture tangenially so.....Remember that DB did not alter the goal posts and the investment whilst not in perpetuity was a calculated one ,created by others.The financial input is relative to the potential gain and it is understandable ,not excusable ,that many see this as oodles of money.DB financial status is consequently irrelevant to the bigger picture.Do you honestly think a 5 bob callgirl was the expectation.The man ,in his own right (DB) is already a legend.Let us treat his package with the same respect it deserves.

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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!…

post-6978-0-49264500-1338528549.jpg

Just some levity before a slight rant, although I’m partial toward the southwestern half of that grid and would like to see Michael Och promoted to the list, if not at the top, but I honestly don’t know enough of the organizational structure or politics to know if it would really make sense.

What I definitely do not want to see--and this will probably sound bigoted--is what’s been done, i.e., putting three (3?!) guys from Malaysia in there who, particularly in a time of crisis like this, will need serious time to sufficiently understand the company and its culture in order to be not just effective, but simply competent.

Brilliant. Maybe they can move south after that and Malaysianize Parmigiano-Reggiano and Champagne.

Which leads me to my larger point, namely, the fish stinks from the head...

I wonder if the entire DB issue isn’t just symptomatic of more fundamental problems, namely that Proton and DRB are possibly not competent owners.

The man ,in his own right (DB) is already a legend.

You mean in a good way or a bad way?


1983 "Investor's Special Edition" Turbo Esprit (#43/50) | 2012 Evora S

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Matt, Michael Och jumped ship a couple of months back.


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I mean "The man,in his own right (DB) is already a legend"(sic) This is a good way.He came with impeccable credentials and a phenomonal history.He has selected top notch people to steer the organisation to a competitive level and was supposed to be given ALL the tools to do this.Now the two ignorant companies have treated him like a rouge and have tarnished a fine reputation.

If a man is suspected of fornication and it is made known only to be proved innocent ,people always remember the former.

My personal opinion is that the company have handled this poorly and unprofessionally .The unfortunate victims will be all at Lotus that are attempting to reach a common goal ..


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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DRB definitely need to put some of their men on the Lotus board. As an owner you also need to have some accountability other than just paying the investment bills. It's harder to throw blame if one of your own was responsible

It surprises me that on the list of execs that Matt posted there isn't a finance head. If your number one issue is managing large amounts of investment you'd want someone who's done this before at this scale.

I'm pleased that DRB have got someone who knows about managing crisis comms in. To me it shows that they're starting to manage these things properly. They could have done with some proper comms experience in from Day-1 of the DB plan. There have been some difficult messages to manage with a passionate customer-base and they've done it poorly. I would say they've disengaged far more than they've brought along.

I've never been anti-DB. In fact if his legacy was building the top teams we see above then I think that's a decent one. But from here he does come across as someone who might have been prone to fudging a few rules to do what he saw best. If that has caught up on him with the buyout of Proton then that's bad luck, but he needs to put his hands up and be accountable.

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I mean "The man,in his own right (DB) is already a legend"(sic) This is a good way.He came with impeccable credentials and a phenomonal history...........

Find me just one good report after he left from Red Bull or Ferrari. Seems previous employers were happy to be parted

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Matt, Michael Och jumped ship a couple of months back.

Bummer. He seemed like a good guy. I guess that shows how interested I am in the politics.


1983 "Investor's Special Edition" Turbo Esprit (#43/50) | 2012 Evora S

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You may laugh at Swizz Beatz and DB's marketing but that Evora GTE that Beatz styled is probably the most desirable piece of motoring kit I have seen in the past decade. And for my demographic (self employed entrepreneur, comfortable) that is precisely the market segment Lotus needs to go after.

Has DB failed? On the contrary I think the brand value has benefited from his tenure.

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Past a certain point this all makes me think of Frank Zappa's album, Shut Up & Play Your Guitar, i.e., just too much noise and drama over the past year--just shut up and make great cars, please, but then again I'm prejudiced since the wait for my car has been so egregious.

Debating DB's effectiveness has and will continue to be debated, but it's getting to be a tired topic from which I hereby officially retire after this post, particularly since we're apparently in the post-mortem phase of the topic. Personally, I always respected his high-altitude vision, and told him so, but just too much noise, highly questionable decisions/statements, and certainly questionable partnerships for me to get behind the implementation very much. You can say what you will about his effect on product placement and putting Lotus's name out there more, but for the heretics like me and International Pool Boy who wholly respect the incredible work and talent it takes to be a top-notch professional racer, but ultimately don't really give much of a rat's ass for F1, seeing Lotus's logo on F1 cars or in motorsport generally is as irrelevant and the corporate logos in the cargo bay of the space shuttle.

DB put the emphasis on brand, but if someone put a gun to my head and gave me 30 seconds to mention the first things that pop in to my mind regarding Lotus today, this is my list of experiences and mental associations that present themselves to my frontal lobes:

  • Maddeningly long delivery time with piss-poor communications.
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NuB53ckkY.
  • Rollout events where the catering bill cost more than Lotus USA's marketing budget or at which invited featured performers include a dude who's a convicted Federal felon for drug and weapons possession, specifically machine guns and silencers (SILENCERS?! WTF?!).

On a more positive side, I'd also add Bibs giving me a kickass demo of his old blue Evora S, which of course is why he needs to have Swizz's job.

So there's no way in hell DB gets my vote as a "legend." In fact, I burst out laughing when I read that. I'll save that word for engineering/marketing geniuses like Colin Chapman and Steve Jobs. If it weren't the case that his effectiveness was questionable then dealers wouldn't be needing to return customers deposits and guys at places like Lime Rock wouldn't roll their eyes when hearing the word Lotus. So I'm more than ready for some of these embarrassing escapades to fade in to the past and for someone to reorient focus back to core competencies, with a more subtle and creative strategy for bringing them to profitability. Who that is, I have no idea--99% of you guys are better plugged in to the scene than I'll ever be or want to be, so float some names--but whoever they are they can't get on board fast enough.

Maybe as a quick fix the three new Malaysian guys who supposedly want to "Malaysianise" Lotus can pitch the Ethos in Malaysia as the MalayDay.


1983 "Investor's Special Edition" Turbo Esprit (#43/50) | 2012 Evora S

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if it was not for the approach to comprehension ....one would swear that you are having a bad trip.Perhaps you googled the refined and stoic words to impress however this has been drowned by the mere fact that you actually dont have a clue as to what you are saying.

....................and if you feel that the post mortem is done ,please say no more.


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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Richard

That sort of closed minded attitude is not what I expect of yourself and your past posts which have been insightful and thoughtful.

Believe me when I say Matt knows alot about what he is talking about. He is a consumate professional and knows about sales and Marketing.

DB has raised the awareness of the company. I totally and 100% agree. But at what cost and is that awareness all good?

Please tell me what I am missing! I am happy to give credit where credit is due. But from where I sit (round the corner from the factory, drinking with people from Lotus and being an Automotive guy myself) I see lots of smoke and mirrors and very little substance.

You ask the man in the street around here they still think "Lotus is going bust", "are backing out of F1 because they can't afford it", are "For sale again" and are "not paying their bills". Some of these are unfair, I agree, but thats what people think. Has the Marketing and huge spend been justified then?

In my opinion he's had some good idea's but fallen through on the policy, development, cost management and ultimately his role, while spending £300 million and having very little new product to show for it.

I want Lotus to survive. I love Lotus. I fundamentally disagree with anyone who thinks DB is good for Lotus.


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Richard, time for a chill pill? Perhaps it's my love of the richness of the English language, but I've always appreciated Matt's linguistic precision, and for certain his iconoclastic take on perceived wisdom. Such viewpoints have their place in any discussion containing ambivalences of such magnitude as we've encountered in this topic's analysis of the merits of DB's various endeavours and projects.

My opinion of said efforts has vacillated from time to time, and my regard for DB has adjusted accordingly. The man and his programs are complex, and not necessarily subject to black and white conclusions. But that does not mean that I cannot understand the polarizing effect some of his actions have had on some individuals.

Cheers,

John


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Matt, Michael Och jumped ship a couple of months back.

That's a shame!

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rat%2Btreading%2Bwater.jpg

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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I also agree with what Matt says.

I think DB had the right idea - and I would still support that.

However the execution was poor and wasteful. Too much evidence of it being a meal ticket, jetting around the world, meeting celebs etc etc. I am all for networking, but come on....

Biggest alarm bell came when all the videos for the Paris launch were made - all ending "Staring Dany Bahar" - smacked of nothing but an ego trip. Flash and markting are great but as all the cynics at the time are no doubt thinking it looks like they are turning out to be false promises.

Shame, that line up from Paris looked fantastic.

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Fair point and accepted .As we move through time,we become associated with many different people ,mostly nowadays through our interweb .We forge relationships through forums ,such as this one and only at times like this do we realise how personal they become (the relationships)

If i offended anyone ,more specifically Matt ,with my outburst ,i apologise .No "buts" and no "howevers"

At times like these we reflect on how iconic Colin Chapman really was .Iconic in the way he perceived the company but moreso the ability to have had such a dedicated team of people that persevered without hesitation.

I feel the frustration is more about those that are still working at Lotus with the same vigour versus the new financially prowess world team who ignorantly cock it up.

Once again ,my apologies .


Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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A manly response, if ever there were one, Richard. :thumbup:


Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Richard,

No apology necessary on my behalf, but I appreciate the sentiment. Disagreement's part of being on a forum. Besides, I agree wholeheartedly with you about the frustration of what's going on right now, which is certainly not good, and definitely share your concern for the good folks at Hethel and the Lotus legacy.

I think we aren't likely to know the behind the scenes stuff and it's legal implications that prompted DB's suspension until late in the game, but it's hard for me to imagine that it wouldn't have been better to leave DB in place while conducting a review unless something he did was truly beyond the pale. Feels a bit like the Malaysians are using a moderate level of "off the reservation" actions by DB as an excuse to do a power play. But I'll just repeat myself if I go on a rant about that again. Put simply, the Malaysians are putting the malaise in Lotus from where I sit. I think they've been out of their depth for years, but from afar. Now that they're (presumably) out of their depth, but from within Hethel.

I could also elaborate on Bibs' Evora S demo, but I don’t want to land him in jail. (That's a joke, by the way. He simply drives with mucho gusto, in a manner befitting a real man behind the wheel of a real car.)

- Matt


1983 "Investor's Special Edition" Turbo Esprit (#43/50) | 2012 Evora S

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Thank you .

Tangenially moving off DB &CO the common denominator that always puzzles me is the involvement (or lack of ) by Group Lotus in the forum and discussions.

Unless there is a closer link to the product that i am not aware of ,never do i see any comment ,attempt to steer or at least a show of intent of the product we are so hooked on.We drive the cars ,people stop and chat ,admire our enthusiasm ,we go to shows ,talk Lotus -Lotus- Lotus ! We brag about the history ,the future and in most instances the recipient of our iconic lifestyle are drawn by envy.

My father -in-law"s partner would never have dreamed of looking at a Lotus Europa had we not engaged in many hours of discussion .This is a man who had an A6 ,A8 ,R8, Aston Martin Vantage ,a handful of Harleys ....the list goes on.Of all the cars money could buy ,he chose a Lotus Europa ....on order now for him is an Evora!

I digress ,had it not being for members on /in this forum i am quiet certain there would be many a Lotus sitting in the factory store waiting for the people to aspire.I am not saying for one minute that we are the link however in the greater picture our pollination and the future forum goers ,deserve to be more interactive.

We have earned the right to be closer to the bone with the correct information after all when the salesman is prospecting ,part of his pitch is ,the forum .

Yes i do know that Bibs is closer than most however ,with respect Bibs,you are told what may or may not be divulged and if transgressed ,will see the end of the inside looking out relationship.

All said and done ...Mr Group Lotus ,when are you going to put the finger on the keyboard and really ,really chat to us.Just to ensure that the thread remains here ,perhaps you can divulge some more info on the DB scenario so as to stop all our speculation and irritation.

Edited by richardvg

Technically sound ...Theoretically poked !

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I have just come back on line after a particularly messy stag do which ironicaly included a factory tour at Lotus a few days before all this broke. It strikes me that most of the above posts are indeed speculation and opinion and not based in too many facts. Should we not wait to hear the facts and the outcome before deciding who can throw the first stone (even if, and I want to make this perfectly clear, he did say Jahova)


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