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Lotus in the post DB era


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The new car is to be on a new platform I believe, i suspect it will be an Esprit. There is a five year plan in place - the Evora will never have a roadster version.

I liked the Élan design but it would need to be a replacement for the Evora not sold alongside it.

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Just thinking, maybe we should close this thread and start a new one "Lotus in the JMG era" - in the hope that it will be a long and prosperous one.

Good hair but that last sentence earns him a kick in the balls next time I see him, what a knob.   http://www.sapu.net/want-a-e1m-car-like-nothing-else-on-the-road-dany-bahars-your-man/  

Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora. Offer different engines/transmission packages... 1.6-1.8 turbo 3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige How can something th

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The new car is to be on a new platform I believe, i suspect it will be an Esprit. There is a five year plan in place - the Evora will never have a roadster version.

I liked the Élan design but it would need to be a replacement for the Evora not sold alongside it.

Why do you think that it would replace the Evora?

 

Hey KW. Thanks for the input.

 

Please introduce yourself in the introduction section. Your comments are interesting and insightful and show a good level of understanding and agreement with our community. We would love to hear more from you.

 

If I can respond in part to your comments:

 

The Evora, Elise and Exige sales are picking up nicely to the point that Lotus are advertising for more Engineers and Production Staff.

 

I think the model line up requires the Esprit more than the Elan. I think the Elan would be in competition with the current line up whereas an Esprit would compliment it! The Esprit, you are correct, was what got a lot of enthusiasts into Lotus in the first place but it is also an iconic car for Lotus, having been it's flagship for so many years.

 

I speak from personal knowledge when I say that you aren't far off the mark with your idea's for a new Esprit. MJK and his team (prior to the DB fiasco) had already done mock ups and a lot of development work on a 2 seater MES (Mid Engined Supercar) that was based on the Evora's revolutionary Chassis and suspension. They were negotiating for a V8 to put in it and myself and a select few potential customers had seen the car in the flesh. Though it shared a "family" resemblence to the Evora it was "Squat-er" sitting lower with flared arches and that supercar look. It would have been out for a few years now if DB hadn't canned it because he wanted his "non Lotus designed generic Italian supercar" look. Shame.

 

There were also plans to further "Superfy" it and even a design on the table for either an extreme version or an all new Supercar above it (maybe a 10 cyl).

 

Wish I had a picture of it to show you but sadly the old man left those behind when he retired and DB got rid of everything.

Thank you Kimbers, I greatly appreciate it. Will go to the intro section when I can.

 

Hell if I had the major loads of cashish, I'd by several Evora S GX's, and race them in the Pirelli World GT Championship.

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Kimbers:

 

In a way I'm glad someone appreciates what, to me, is the dull-as-ditchwater blandosity that was the pre-bahar Esprit. (See above). It would be a shame if it had nobody to love it.

 

But why on earth would you think that Italian design has no place in Lotus when Giorgetto Giugaro's stunning Esprit catapulted the marque into stardom? Even the Elise, whose 'DNA' is still very much in evidence in the look of the Exige, was based in no small part on the look of the Ferrari Dino, thanks to Julian Thompson's freedom to reinvent what 'Lotus' should be. He threw out the rule book and the result was a car I bought.

 

Donato Coco's designs were stunning. Lotus 'DNA' was looking tired and conservative and basically needed a kick up the arse. The Evora's design was a great example of what happens when a design team is being strangled by the need to conform to 'DNA', and that abomination of an Esprit you mention - thankfully ditched - was an even greater example of death-by-DNA. It looks less special than a Porsche Boxster, which would certainly be cheaper than it by a good 20-30K if it had been built. I thought the new Elan design was spectacular.

 

The future of Lotus seemed rejuvenated by these designs, not denuded. The company today without the promise of such exotica is a company very much less interesting.

 

Honestly, I couldn't give an arse about 'Lotus DNA'. It isn't some mystery that you shed weight to get more performance, and nobody really cares if a marque sticks to one set of design patterns or throws the rule book away. All that matters is product that people want to buy, and Lotus is a very long way from success, despite your jolly optimism about sales figures.

What are they by the way? 

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I've got to say that I'm glad that the silver 'Esprit' pictured above (and below) never made it past the design phase; to me, it looks like someone grafted a fat Evora frontage onto my old Ford Cougar. It screams 'design from the 1980's'! On the whole, I've loved Coco's designs, especially the Elite and Elan, but his re-imagination of the Esprit hasn't grabbed me like his other designs did. My favourite modern Lotus design has been the Evora GTE which is now sadly consigned to history ...

 

post-13442-0-21011200-1379185094.jpg

 

post-13442-0-49126600-1379185108.jpg

 

post-13442-0-31370500-1379185118.jpg

 

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When you put it like that both the 'new' Esprits fail, one's a little dull, the other one's trying too hard! Maybe Caterham would like to take on the old Esprit and do what they did with the Seven?  :smoke:

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Personally I thought Coco's Esprit was the least successful of the new designs. I much preferred one of the bolder pre-DB designs, there were quite a few.

 

lotus_esprit_concept_2011_zpseab3b100.jp

 

With a bit of work to the front lights it would have been a much more exciting and original design.

 

And I know it's only a sketch but it's a reminder to me of how far Coco missed the mark with the Esprit.

 

Lotus_Esprit_2007_Concept_zps6d59a979.gi

 

An Esprit design should be the best looking car you've ever seen or sent straight back to the drawing board. 'Not bad' - which is how I'd describe Coco's Esprit at best - simply isn't good enough.

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What would be involved with being able to change the "clothes" of the Esprit. The chassis does lend itself to being stripped, partially or completely, and redressed. Some motorbikes have body panels that aren't one piece and allow different configurations.

It could open a whole new concept for individualized looking cars. Imagine being able to change guards, bonnets and bootlids etc. Cycle guards one time and full guards another for example. Exposed engines and then enclosed aero packages etc.

Designs would have to certified and then copyrighted to ensure originality (and OEM profits?).

For inspiration there are various elements on designs here that offer interesting aspects for such a concept.

https://www.google.com/search?q=supercars+futuristic&client=ubuntu&hs=6Va&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=BtM1UuGAK5G1hAeM9YHgBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1229&bih=581&dpr=1

DanR

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If Lotus do go ahead with the Esprit again, they need to think of a design that will last 10 years and longer.  The Bahar Esprit is already looking a bit dull and safe.  They need something that looks radical and different, like the Lotus "Kiwi" did in 1972.

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What would be involved with being able to change the "clothes" of the Esprit. The chassis does lend itself to being stripped, partially or completely, and redressed. Some motorbikes have body panels that aren't one piece and allow different configurations.

It could open a whole new concept for individualized looking cars. Imagine being able to change guards, bonnets and bootlids etc. Cycle guards one time and full guards another for example. Exposed engines and then enclosed aero packages etc.

Designs would have to certified and then copyrighted to ensure originality (and OEM profits?).

For inspiration there are various elements on designs here that offer interesting aspects for such a concept.

https://www.google.com/search?q=supercars+futuristic&client=ubuntu&hs=6Va&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=BtM1UuGAK5G1hAeM9YHgBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1229&bih=581&dpr=1

 

A very interesting idea. Perhaps better suited to a new Elise, but sure why not a new idea for the Esprit. I really hope it happens. But it has to look really stunning, that's the one area of opportunity for Lotus. 458 is technical and interesting to look at but I struggle to call it beautiful. Lambos are going too stealth bomber inspired, Porsches all just look the same and are very conservative. A radical design could really cause some ripples among the supercar establishment. Mclaren MP412/C is pretty conservative too. Bahar's Esprit was just a me-too 458 wannabe - engine power and weight figures were virtually the same, paddleshift box etc. I just can't see the point of that.

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For me McLaren have got the balance right, not everyone wants to drive a Zonda, I'll be very interested to see the 'budget' McLaren P13... same carbon chassis as the MP4-12C, sharing the double clutch gearbox and apparently a NA version of the same engine, but cheap... by McLaren standards. 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Amazed this thread has come back to life :unworthy:

 

From the news lately Lotus seems to have stabilized. They are claiming to be building about 200 cars a month and they have hopefully reached an operative break-even. The 100 million investment by DRB should help secure the future, so it may be time to reflect where we stand today. 

 

1) Lotus currently has 3 model lines (Elise, Exige and Evora) with their respective variants. That is quite a considerable lineup for such a small volume, even taking into account that the Exige V6 is half Elise and half Evora based. That is certainly a challenge and Lotus #1 focus must be on increasing sales and production volumes. Lamborghini  has only 2 models and a higher volume, as does Bentley just to name some.

 

2) It seems fair to say that the current lineup has much higher sales potential, they are each great cars in heir own right and regularly get rave test results. This means increasing the dealer network both in numbers and quality, increased marketing including better leverage of the F1-name. So, actually, model development shouldn't be a top priority.

 

3) If and when a new Esprit ever sees the light of day it has quite a few challenges to meet. It must really hit the market well, having competition-beating performance while keeping that extra Lotus-touch. At the same time has to match market quality expectations, avoiding the pitfall of the Evora Launch-Edition. Finally it must be highly profitable from day one, which means lower production costs and market appropriate sales prices. It surely won't be a bargain, in fact a low-cost Esprit would likely be the end of Lotus.

 

My "true" question to Lotus is which car should I buy in 2-1/2 years, when I plan to replace my current Evora S. I probably can't afford a possible Esprit (unless its a clobbered together low-cost version that I won't wand either), but I would follow a nominally price-hiked Evora range  

 

There is a thread on here http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/58319-what-evora-improvements-would-you-like-to-see/ and if I would be in charge a t Lotus this is where I would be starting.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

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Those look awful to me and look like they'd both need a spoiler plonked on the back. I think I prefer Kimbers favourite over those.

 

Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed where this topic is concerned?

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
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?

 

Opinions not allowed?

 

Lotus do need a halo car. The Esprit has been it for a long time and should be again and it does need to be as revolutionary as the Kiwi was back in Turin all those years ago.

 

As for Caterham taking on the old Esprit, TLF has the VARI moulds :hrhr:

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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As for Caterham taking on the old Esprit, TLF has the VARI moulds :hrhr:

 

Well it was a passing comment... but imagine a company along the lines of 'Eagle E-Type' rebuilding Guigiaro Esprits! :smoke:   

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Well it was a passing comment... but imagine a company along the lines of 'Eagle E-Type' rebuilding Guigiaro Esprits! :smoke:   

I'm in!  :happy dance:  :happy dance:  :happy dance:

You could easily base it on the Evora platform!

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

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I think that a SID-designed Esprit with a 4.5L twin-turbocharged (or a seriously supercharged) V8 and Eibach springs and a limited slip differential would be cool.

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Was I a fool for expecting a reasonable reply to my points about italian car design influence at Lotus? At least I have this instead. Thanks!

 

It was meant as a joke. Sense of humour injection at the ready if you need it!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
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Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIMES/articles/20130924010416/Article/index_html

 

PROTON Holdings Bhd's sportscar unit Group Lotus Plc is "70 per cent cleaned up" and on track to becoming profitable in two to three years

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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I would like to see a new esprit with a engine like the cosworth four cylinder engine that was going to be used in the jaguar C-X57 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/jaguar-c-x75-gets-500bhp-16-turbo

 

https://soundcloud.com/autocar-uk

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Read more: 'Lotus 70pc cleaned up' http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIMES/articles/20130924010416/Article/index_html#ixzz2gAoVmoew

 

A key sentence, with my added emphases:

 

"They include a lack of new models, quality and operational issues, low presence and negative perception of the brand, dealers network, broken promises and the car's poor visibility."

 

It seems to me that recently departed DB was at least aiming in the right direction for the most important of those. (Quality and Operational should be addressed by a No.2 anyway, and I can't comment re Promises.)

 

Has he been maligned unfairly in some respects?
 

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