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Lotus in the post DB era


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Can someone explain what is so great about the Porsche marketing ? DRB know nothing about marketing maybe true but what is Porsche doing ? I see almost never any advertising for their cars in magazines, never any tv commercials, not much sponsering etc. Lotus gets more headlines thanks to F1these days positive good results and negative financial situation.

Kimbers has some good points , I think it was nice if Lotus had joint Mazda and Alfa with the new roadster !

About F1 any ideas if DRB will help out if things gets really wrong financially ?

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Just thinking, maybe we should close this thread and start a new one "Lotus in the JMG era" - in the hope that it will be a long and prosperous one.

Good hair but that last sentence earns him a kick in the balls next time I see him, what a knob.   http://www.sapu.net/want-a-e1m-car-like-nothing-else-on-the-road-dany-bahars-your-man/  

Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora. Offer different engines/transmission packages... 1.6-1.8 turbo 3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige How can something th

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I'd vote for a new Lotus Cortina. For decades, Americans always connected Lotus-Ford when performance was concerned since Jimmy Clark, etc. at Indy and other racing venues. Nobody under the age of 40 remembers those good times.

I'll take the white one with the green stripe down the side please. Come on Ford, step up with your new small sedans.

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About F1 any ideas if DRB will help out if things gets really wrong financially ?

 

Uh it's a licensing deal, Lotus F1 team gets a deal to use the brand but nothing else and yes Proton has an option but I doubt they'll ever go with it as Proton is busy getting its act together. 

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:rofl: .... now that IS funny!

Maybe so but the F1 is great marketing for Lotus. If all whats been told is true Lotus earning money from it with selling the F1 clothing through Lotus originals. Is the loan paid back yet, if not and things go wrong then Proton will end up with a F1 facility at least that was the deal . Also are there not two people from DRB in the F1 board ? I know DRB will not save the team but a bit more support and a closer corporation would benifit both.

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"Can someone explain what is so great about the Porsche marketing ? DRB know nothing about marketing maybe true but what is Porsche doing ? I see almost never any advertising for their cars in magazines, never any tv commercials, not much sponsering etc. Lotus gets more headlines thanks to F1these days positive good results and negative financial situation."

 

Porsche find themselves in the enviable position of not having to try hard on the marketing front, simply because their products have become both aspirational and common, i.e. there are a lot of mobile adverts driving around the streets every day. This isn't a uniquely Porsche thing. Look at Range Rover - they've managed the same thing, and JLR are on a bit of a roll right now.

 

That said, Porsche have an excellent, well-placed range of dealerships, they attend trade shows and put targeted ads in a wide variety of magazines which target people with disposable income. For example, they had full page ads running in New Scientist for the Panamera hybrid over the last few months, no doubt trying to prise a bit of cash from those Cambridgeshire millionaires! They're also strong in motorsport (though Lotus do well here of course).

 

Lotus dropping out of car shows seemed to me more of an admission that their cars weren't mainstream enough to generate enough leads to justify the cost of attending the show, but it did seem a particularly desperate form of cost-cutting. Few people have the balls to pretend to want to buy a 60 or 100 grand car at a dealership when you can't afford it yet, but a car show gives us hairy masses the chance to sit in some exotica and start the process of falling in love with a brand or type of vehicle which we aspire to and perhaps sometime eventually are able to afford.

 

But in the end, even the best marketing can't fix the product. No matter what the dynamic appeal of the car range, if not enough people come forward to buy one, and the people who do come forward don't want to pay what it really costs to not just build them but also fund R+D on their replacements (which has never been more costly), then you have a broken proposition that nobody in their right mind would invest in to 'save'.

 

"The Successful Lotus in 2020?". What must that company look like? How many cars must it sell? How much profit must they make per-car on average? How will they build them? Where will they build them? What will cars even have to be by then? How much will it cost even to develop a car by then? Has anyone even done the spreadsheet?

 

For fun, can anyone with a better understanding of these things throw a few numbers at the thread?

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I doubt Lotus cars ever make any money, as I understand it Lotus are a design/ engineering consultancy who build a few cars to showcase their core business, don't ask to buy a new car at 'cost',

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They make money on each car, I've seen the BoM (Bill of Materials) figures, it's just not very much when compared to Porsche and the like! 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I accept they make money on each car in respect of BoM but I'd be surprised if you take into account r&d, plant depreciation, staff pension provision etc that there is any money left over.

 

If I recall correctly it was much the same for Porsche for many years when the Weissach consultancy paid the bills.

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I doubt Lotus cars ever make any money, as I understand it Lotus are a design/ engineering consultancy who build a few cars to showcase their core business, don't ask to buy a new car at 'cost',

When Lotus Engineering took shape (originally it wasn't even called that) MJK and his team pretty much used the cars as a platform to showcase their Engineering skills (one of the reasons you saw many collaborations during the those times). Most of the profit for the past 30 years has come from that area. Lotus profit per car is low in comparison to a pure car manufacturer for that reason.

 

Though lets not forget that by the end of it's production the Esprit was making 50% margin as all it's R&D and tooling costs had been paid off.

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Though lets not forget that by the end of it's production the Esprit was making 50% margin as all it's R&D and tooling costs had been paid off.

But that was still too little to fund the development of a proper successor.

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They were only selling 100-150 a year worldwide in the last few years of production.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Lotus is like a great restaurant with two tables in front and a great deli counter in the back. Peeps come in for the deli because the two tables are for show . They will never have more customers seated unless they can place more tables out…..

 

Lotus have to think fast nickels rather than slow dimes if they really want to succeed.

I think it's fast enough…maybe

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I read an interesting McLaren tale recently...

 

It seems there was a grand, interleaved plan..... the £800m spend on the MC4-12C, was always intended to fund the much higher volume P13, meanwhile the P1, as a much higher value hyper car would fund it's styling program.. smart thinking! Every car exists because of the other, there's huge sharing in both major and minor components, not to mention the software and technology and yet McLaren maintain exclusivity within each model. Genius. 

 

I wish Lotus all the luck in the world, but seriously I think they're better off evolving the Elige range and topping up the Evora. 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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The Elige is like intravenous feeding. It may keep you alive but you will never leave the Hospital unless you are able to eat real food. Building Eliges just prolongues the agony.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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So, here we whine and opine, speculate and explicate, spinning our various automotive economic theories, all the while praying for the long term survival of our cherished marque.

 

And nary a clue, hint, signal, nor sign from DRB as to what, exactly, they have in store for the future of Lotus Cars. Keeping things "close to the vest" is, one imagines, strictly a business decision on their part. That, or an admission of their own uncertainty of how  best to proceed. Meanwhile, the very clientele they most need to cater to drift about on an ocean of hearsay, grasping at the flotsam passing by, hoping to snag a piece of debris that might uplift their spirits sufficiently to remain clinging to the life rafts.

 

How much time must pass before the powers that be demonstrate their sincerity for the continuance of the brand? Is there an actual "plan"...a viable scheme...lurking in the misty enclaves within the corporate boardrooms? Or are they simply biding their time, waiting for some indefinable miracle to occur? Or, rather, are their "carpenters" in fact busy in the backroom, building more of those restaurant tables that Ronin has alluded to?

 

Somewhere, there is a "fly on the wall" that knows the answer. But I have not yet heard its buzz.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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They were only selling 100-150 a year worldwide in the last few years of production.

 

£5mill profit from 150 units. Sounds like a good business plan to me :)

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Not when your wage bill is £3m/month.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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£5mill profit from 150 units. Sounds like a good business plan to me :)

 

so if £3M per month wages bill we can assume a healthy profit this year from 2000+ units; towards 2014 version of a facelifted Evora and Elise/Exige range?

Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own a true British supercar the Evora GT430

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PS I have it on good authority that there's no major facelift on the way for the Evora.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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oops i misread the Lotus page on the LA motorshow  "This car is equipped with the, new for model year 2014, Black Package, giving the Evora a more aggressive style."

 

in which case is there R&D money for the Elise/Exige carbon fibre tub, or dare i say on resurrecting the Esprit?

Darryl & Sue

Proud to drive and own a true British supercar the Evora GT430

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That's not a major facelift, it's some parts painted black I'd guess. 

 

There's market demand for an updated Evora, I've no idea why it's not being put into place unless they have no money for it. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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