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Lotus in the post DB era


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Just thinking, maybe we should close this thread and start a new one "Lotus in the JMG era" - in the hope that it will be a long and prosperous one.

Good hair but that last sentence earns him a kick in the balls next time I see him, what a knob.   http://www.sapu.net/want-a-e1m-car-like-nothing-else-on-the-road-dany-bahars-your-man/  

Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora. Offer different engines/transmission packages... 1.6-1.8 turbo 3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige How can something th

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Yea and his vision sucked IMHO. The new esprit is an engineering marvel but is brutally ugly, all the the concepts were. I won't be buying one if it comes out as is, from a design point of view alone, it should have been done thus: oh hello mr car designer. Here is the 1989 Stevens shape. Update this shape incrementally as if I were asking you to do it in 1996 or 1997. Then take that shape and incrementally update it again as though I were asking you to do it in 2002 or 2003. Now do a slightly larger revision of the design in 2008 or 2009. Now incrementally update that design for 2015. See what I'm doing here??? Slightly porsche esque design philosophy? And why? Because when the design is already perfect and instant icon in its first iteration you should only ever incrementally improve it.

The new esprit has design features that could never appear in an incremental way, only the view from the rear looks correct to me.

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DB is a smoke and mirrors person, who hoped to sell the Emperor (rich and gullible people) his vaporware clothes using and spending other's money.This is opposed to someone like Elon Musk, who has many real visions for which he brings a major part of his own finances to the table. Lotus didn't need a DB spinmaster who thought the louder I shout my BS (introduce 5 cars at once) and by throwing around money, the more they'll believe me. Musk has investors, but is putting a lot of his own money on the line. Which type of person are you gonna believe and want to run your company?

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The problem is Lotus went from one extreme to the other, the extravagance and passion of DB to the bean counters and blandness of DRB. Let's hope the new guy can breath some life into the company. 

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Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Despite admiring how DRB have got the company back on its feet again, I have to agree. It'd be great to get anything to raise excitement levels again, just a little teaser, anything!

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Well they just gave us a new CEO, i think the guy will need a bit more time before making his first announcement.  The guy has a tough job ahead of him.

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Tough job but wonderful opportunity. World recession starting to fade..

We all love brands, especially iconic British car brands like Mini, Bentley, Aston, Land Rover, Jaguar, Morgan and Lotus!

It's untapped potential is yet to be realised in the 21st Century where we all love hero's from the past reinvented.

DRB knows this..

They are about to realise this fully with a decent experienced leader and will make a LOT of money.

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I agree with the sentiment that I think Lotus may well come out with something that will get everyone going. Call it gut feel or whatever.

If not, why would DRB have bothered?

There is a plan. There has to be. Otherwise a lot of money has been thrown down a deep chasm.

 

I look forward to the next few months. Honestly though, whatever they come up with will be currently outside my means. (unfortunately :( )

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Who's responsible for the Exige S? I reckon it's one of the most exciting toys about these days.

Exige V6 was already under development when MJK left the company, DB finished the work but was sacked and the first few cars were sold under AF stewardship. I heard  that both Exige V6roadster and coupe are is selling in good numbers. It's a shame they can't be sold for anything but track use around here. The Exige V6 roadster has California tattooed all over!

 

If the new boss wants to bump the sales number quick and does realize that he needs 2 years to get a new "global Elige" out of the gates of Hethel... Could someone suggest him to provide adequate paperwork and tech for NHTSA homologation, it's only smart airbag that's stopping the car from entering the market, for one or maybe two year but they'll sell at least 400 of these easy and their price will skyrocket when the production of the Exige ends.

Lotus would make a fat profit on every car sold has the airbag investment would be recouped not only on Exige but also Evora and future cars. Considering how the price for a basic Elise S is borderline ridiculous here... Exige would resell for a fortune. It would be a win-win situation. Lotus would make money on new car sold, any buyer would have a collectible in hands, it would go miles restoring the image of the brand.

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It is an exciting time. With new leadership comes new initiatives.

I just hope it's an everyday car. A car that Doctors and Accountants will buy in numbers to generate profits. Yes, Golf and tennis players instead of Petrolhead trackday enthusiasts like you and me who are not going to save Lotus!

A everyday car with an options list to make money!. I'm not saying I agree with it but it makes money! Decent fuel economy (through lightness) with NAV and leather in a car that people can use to go to work in or let their partner borrow without hesitation. An easy car to drive which doesn't scare them or make them feel awkward. A boot for weekend stuff (Evora size minimum!).

Without a decent global volume car Lotus will never do itself justice.

As for this statement:-

If you ask Bahar, Lotus simply changed its mind after talking to its customers. "No one is going to buy a $200,000 sports car with a Toyota engine in it," Bahar said.

The masses who might actually buy this car have spoken... What a narrow minded view, if the BHP and reliability is there what would you rather own? A 991 GT3’s engine with a bolt on the con rod ( 2 cars caught fire) coming loose and the Con rod going through the crankcase spilling oil onto the exhaust (bang) bye bye car. Or an efficient Japanise engine that doesn't even consume any oil?!!

DB had the vision and should have been kept in charge of marketing and product development but the overall decisions on which car to develop first and which suppliers to use should have been well and truly NOT anything to do with him. Perfect vision without any business sense! A Maverick who crashed and burned all of Lotus's resources.

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I hope you're right... nothing in past 2 years has given me the confidence to think seriously about buying another Lotus, ignoring their customer base was a rather poor strategy if they expect the faithful to put their hands in their pockets one again.

 

Dany was a maverick but with a great understanding of what it would take to relaunch the brand on a global scale. DRB are obviously less ambitious, but it remains to be seen how far their ambition stretches beyond balancing the books. 

 

I'd love to see Lotus succeed though, no doubt  about it, put an Evora 2 in the showrooms, a Spyder or God forbid an entirely new car and I could be tempted.  I just need to see some concrete evidence that the past couple of years of silence is over and the company is moving forward doing what it should be doing, i.e. making world beating cars. 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Let's all not forget it was Proton who assigned DB and it was Proton that approved DB's five-year plan and it was Proton that secured the loans to fund the plan. It's true DB probably wasn't the right guy to manage the company, but that was not his decision.

 

Nonetheless, Jean-Marc seems to be better poised to tackle the job. Just wish he had the funds available that DB was given.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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I hope you're right... nothing in past 2 years has given me the confidence to think seriously about buying another Lotus, ignoring their customer base was a rather poor strategy if they expect the faithful to put their hands in their pockets one again.

Dany was a maverick but with a great understanding of what it would take to relaunch the brand on a global scale. DRB are obviously less ambitious, but it remains to be seen how far their ambition stretches beyond balancing the books.

SV,

I admired his vision too. DB's line up was perfection.

They needed him but he needed someone like Jean-Marc to keep control of that brilliant wild line up. It's almost like DB's a bit of crazy artist at heart, an amazing but volatile businessman! A company like Lotus needs both. The vision was right, he just needed a billion or two to execute it!

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That's a point, DB's line was world class, he cherry picked the best available and put together the team to do the job. I'm sure Jean-Marc will the do the best job he can, but he's got a lot of work to do as Lotus have been pretty much in limbo since DRB took over.

 

Can he appoint the right people, does he have the budget, is there even a grand plan?

 

All will be revealed, or maybe not given DRB's past record of sharing information and keeping the faithful inspired.  :tumbleweed:  

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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As discussed on the thread about the JM appointment, I think he will be a steady hand on the tiller to keep DRB happy but he is definitely a car guy and an engineer to boot. I believe we will see some good stuff emerging from Hethel in the coming months/years. He acknowledges the enthusiasts base, the importance of TLF and the like in supporting the brand and how crucial the dealer network is. All will be getting his full attention in the coming months as Bibs will no doubt report shortly. But there is also a sense of realism in recognising the challenge ahead and how that will be overcome by building damn good cars!

 

As Kimbers mentioned, MJK rates him highly. And that's good enough for me.

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Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora.

Offer different engines/transmission packages...

1.6-1.8 turbo

3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige

How can something that is that sexy not sell with a Lotus badge on it?

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I don't mind if it has a Toyota engine because to be honest once lotus hands are done with the the head is unrecognisable, and those who get into the details knows that what matters. But I understand why those new to cars or less mechanically interested would say something like that.

Any argument about whether or not db was right or wrong or anywhere in between is irrelevant. A company must be able to balance the books and if it can't then the vision was wrong.

And I personally think the Elan concept looked more like a new esprit than the new esprit did. If they took the front half of the new élan and married it to the rear of the new esprit and kept the low side intake of the new Elan It would be a trillion times closer.

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Ditch the Toystore, make it MQB-compatible and gain access to the largest selection of really good powerplants.

 

OK, but why should Audi/VW sell their engines to a successful Lotus?

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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I'd be gutted if something that sexy was delivered with a Toyota engine in it.

This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

Toyota/Lexus machinery is adequate and when tuned properly can be stunning  LF-A, IS-F, RC-F prove just that. Lotus should stick stick to Toyota as the Lexus engines are only going to get better and better and more suited to Lotus needs: a 2L turbo four is coming, smaller V6 are on the table, V8 are readily available. 

 

Why would VW group sell engines to Lotus ? Ok maybe they could make some extra money... But Lotus would be required to buy engines in massive numbers... And  wouldn't that make the cars a little more generic. Besides Lotus needs an engine/powertrain/electronics partnership that they are unlikely to get with VW group but they can still get that partnership with Toyota. 

 

Ford (with ecoboost) and Jaguar ( with ingenium) also have complete engine line ups that are suitable for Lotus and big advantage they are made locally.

 

TBD when you say to make the car MQB compatible, do you mean that Lotus should drop VVA and pay VW for their chassis architecture??? Why would Lotus do that!  MQB, which stands for Modularer Querbaukasten or Modular Transverse Matrix it is chassis tech not engine tech... Chassis tech designed to mass produce Golf, Polo, Lupo, Seats, Skodas  A1 and A3 on the same platform front engine front wheel drive. like this:

 

3CARmagazineGolf7030512.jpg

 

 

Volkswagen-MQB-Platform.jpg

 

 

Lotus is mostly rear engined and rear wheel drive these days!!! And why would they pay royalties to VW when VVA is doing the same thing and allow for small volume cost effective manufacturing?

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