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Lotus in the post DB era


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This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

 

And rightly so. I vote with my wallet. A flagship car can't have bitsa engine shipped into Hethel in crates. It needs to be developed and manufactured in-house. No question.

Anything else is a glorified kit car, no matter how good the motive power might be in its home element. If DB's Esprit/Elan or any of the concepts previously penned ended up with a BMW/Toyota/Audi lump or similar then they wouldn't have found space on my driveway.

 

It was bad enough back in the 90's explaining to people that, no, this V8 isn't a turbocharged Rover engine, or earlier in the 80's that, no, this isn't a Vauxhall slant four, let alone the thought of having to admit in 2015 that I have just spent £150k on a car whose maker couldn't design their own engine. That's a ridiculous notion. And one shared by many buyers of this type of car.

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Just thinking, maybe we should close this thread and start a new one "Lotus in the JMG era" - in the hope that it will be a long and prosperous one.

Good hair but that last sentence earns him a kick in the balls next time I see him, what a knob.   http://www.sapu.net/want-a-e1m-car-like-nothing-else-on-the-road-dany-bahars-your-man/  

Yup, and it would be niggle free from lessons learnt from 5 years of Evora. Offer different engines/transmission packages... 1.6-1.8 turbo 3.5 Supercharged from Evora/Exige How can something th

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Just build this, market and price it PROPERLY. Please!

 

Just build this, market and price it PROPERLY. Please!

 

 

\And make triple-dammed sure it has a modern MANUAL transmission.  Hell, make a 6-speed manual THE go to base model transmission for this car before offering up a paddle-shifted DSG, and a slushbox automatic (better yet, screw putting and autobox in this car. Manual tranny is the way to go!!!)

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This is the kind of comment that got  the introduction of Esprit delayed and got us a beautiful but vaporware V8!

 

Toyota/Lexus machinery is adequate and when tuned properly can be stunning  LF-A, IS-F, RC-F prove just that. Lotus should stick stick to Toyota as the Lexus engines are only going to get better and better and more suited to Lotus needs: a 2L turbo four is coming, smaller V6 are on the table, V8 are readily available. 

 

Why would VW group sell engines to Lotus ? Ok maybe they could make some extra money... But Lotus would be required to buy engines in massive numbers... And  wouldn't that make the cars a little more generic. Besides Lotus needs an engine/powertrain/electronics partnership that they are unlikely to get with VW group but they can still get that partnership with Toyota. 

 

Ford (with ecoboost) and Jaguar ( with ingenium) also have complete engine line ups that are suitable for Lotus and big advantage they are made locally.

 

TBD when you say to make the car MQB compatible, do you mean that Lotus should drop VVA and pay VW for their chassis architecture??? Why would Lotus do that!  MQB, which stands for Modularer Querbaukasten or Modular Transverse Matrix it is chassis tech not engine tech... Chassis tech designed to mass produce Golf, Polo, Lupo, Seats, Skodas  A1 and A3 on the same platform front engine front wheel drive. like this:

 

3CARmagazineGolf7030512.jpg

 

 

Volkswagen-MQB-Platform.jpg

 

 

Lotus is mostly rear engined and rear wheel drive these days!!! And why would they pay royalties to VW when VVA is doing the same thing and allow for small volume cost effective manufacturing?

I specifically said MQB-compatible, not MQB. MQB also defines common set points for engine and transmission mounts, spacing of drivetrain components, et.al. This allow putting a wide range of engine /gearbox combinations, including hybrid into the car, i.e. you can go from a 3-cylinder to a V6 on the same chassis.

 

Should be easy to modify the VVA to use these common set points.

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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TBH I'd be less likely to purchase one if they produced their own engine.

Aston Martin are having to go elsewhere as they can't afford to develop their own, why would Lotus be able to?

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I'd be gutted if something that sexy was delivered with a Toyota engine in it.

I understand your sentiment Advantage but Lotus doesn't and won't have the cash for what your suggesting until it makes some serious money.

A car with a donor engine is better than no car at all and the end of Lotus.

To suggest that using a donor engine is like creating a very expensive kit car is a tad harsh, isn't it?!

Is a Zonda R with a Merc AMG engine a kit car?

In a perfect world yes, Lotus should aim to build it's own power plants but it's years away from that. That sort of project need hundreds of millions to do properly.. Even Porsche these days can't get it right and have suffered massive negative press.. Do you really want a TVR Speed Six? Powerful but is it reliable?!

Lotus should open up the book again and search for something special.

I still think DB biggest screw up was missing the boat setting up a Lotus/Renault partnership... A proper CEO would have accomplished this instead of living in la la land.

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Buying an engine in makes sense for Lotus, it's no bad thing for the owner either, something a little more tried and tested, half decent support and the lack of a bespoke lump should be reflected in the purchase price as well as servicing costs. It would be amazing if they could pull off a deal with McLaren/Ricardo for the 12C's twin turbo v8... highly unlikely though! 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Thing is, no manufacturer is going to sell a competitor the engine from a car in a similar place in the market. It just doesn't make commercial sense to arm your rivals with the same weapons you have.

 

That's why Toyota remove the insipid lump from a people mover, nail it to a gearbox of a diesel taxi and ship it to Potash Lane while keeping their fingers crossed that the cheque clears.

 

And no. I don't wish the Esprit to sound like a Lexus. I want it sound like an Esprit.

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For a marketing man DB wasn't exactly wise in promising new improved cars, but only in 5 years time and in the meantime offering high priced merchandise instead of cars and expecting the faithful Lotus buyer to sit about waiting.

And you don't show your new design in public and just hope the competitors don't steal your designs over the next few years or they don't date too much and look old before they can be bought.

If it had worked it would have been a miracle and might just have been launched as the recession is ending but the company was never going to survive through the worst recession in decades without a shed load of cash.

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People movers.... taxis? That doesn't sound very glamourous, whatever car Lotus put that sort of combo into it would have to be a LOT cheaper than McLaren's forthcoming P13 with it's bespoke engine, carbon chassis, oodles of tech and priced around £130k plus or minus the odd arm and leg. 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Advantage it's very very clear you never owned a Lotus Esprit V8, otherwise you would have much wiser comments regarding building your own engine... The Speed Six was the start of the end for TVR, more cars came back in than they could sell. It wasn't muche better with the Esprit V8...

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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I've owned two and sold many more.

 

So YOU are that one person who never had any issues with that engine? I know/knew more than 12 people whom have/had a V8 Esprit. NONE of them got to 30k kms without engine rebuilt... in fact most of them did not get to 25k kms...

Edited by Exploded

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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I bought my first in 96 as a two month old ex-demo and ran it for 25k hard miles until February 98 when I bought a new car because of the new shape dash.

Two years and almost 30k miles later I sold it in anticipation of the M250 surfacing.

Apart from an off at Brands neither car required anything other than scheduled maintenance.

The dealership I worked at during that time was the most successful worldwide with retailing Esprits simply because of my experiences. Only one came back for engine work but that was due to a failed seal on the oil filter causing oil loss and subsequent starvation.

But I hardly ever get to tell this side of the story because it's dull. "Bought car. It worked. Sold car."

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Well what can I say; it seems I got it all wrong again. :( The Esprit V8 is only unreliable on this side of the channel ;)

Since you never experienced any problems with your V8; Can you give me 5 numbers between 1 and 50 and 2 extra numbers between 1 and 11, that just come to your mind? There is 48 million to win tomorrow and with you close; I'm starting to feel lucky: http://www.euromillions.com/en/

I promise to buy you another V8 engined Esprit should I win the jackpot ;)

Edited by Exploded
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Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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It's worth remembering that the V8 wasn't designed with the Esprit in mind, but a rather mundane front engined saloon car.

A lot of its perceived problems stem from the inappropriate application.

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That's something I didn't know. I knew about the N/A version and higher output design of the turbo one but not that it was for saloon car.

Off topic, but which one?

Oh and Ebonys jumped off the bed now. All the commotion and she couldnt settle. Bless!

Chunky Lover

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It's worth remembering that the V8 wasn't designed with the Esprit in mind, but a rather mundane front engined saloon car.

A lot of its perceived problems stem from the inappropriate application.

please explain a bit more. I know it was originally designed for an FWD car and that the S4s was to be the last Esprit. But why you mention inappropriate appllication? Cooling was never the issue I believe.

Calypso Rose Rules the World!

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MQB? An Esprit with a transverse rear engine...noooo! It must have a longitudinal configuration. Like proper race cars and all the major supercars.

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DanR

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I've never had any engine problems with my 97 V8

Paddle Faster, I hear Banjos!
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I would suspect a very large number of people haven't, but like Advantage said, it's a booring story to shout about, the fact your car hasn't broken down!

Personally wether it has an in house engine or something like that LFA engine wouldn't stop me buying one of the new Esprits or not, it would be the fact I wit got enough money!

Mclaren F1 LM in Burnt orange, my dream car of ALL time, bar none. BMW engine.

If they chose right, it will be good either way. But like has already been pointed out about the Evora engine, journalists do like to shout about its Camry roots, no matter how good it is or how nice it sounds with a sports exhaust.

Chunky Lover

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Ah crap. Just found out they only made 5 F1LM's and 1 prototype. Doubtful I'll ever own one now.

Guess it'll have to be an Esprit. In which case I'll have the screamer engine please, or the in house one Danny boy was building. Wasn't it almost finished?

Chunky Lover

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It was close to validation as far as I read, and it was a Zimmerman - HWA design (aka AMG).  The engine would be good but Lotus would have the hardest part to deal with now which is homologation in Europe, America, Japan, China & ASEAN... It's a lot of paperwork and it's pricey. Has it been fully funded under DB's regime or did DRB put some extra cash together to get it  done is a very good question.  

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How many were actually built and tested? How much testing was done in a "mule" vs a fixed stand? 

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Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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