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giorgio67

Front upper pivot sleeves help

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Hi guys,

I'm reassembling the front upper wishbones on the chassis but I found a strange thing...

my right welded inner sleeve on chassis (where il located the top bolt) is different from the left side, is about 5 mm longer and if with the correct washers the wishbone fit, the problem is that the suspension arms are not symmetric.

The centre of the right under & upper ball joints are not alligned and this seems very strange to me also because I can't think Lotus made a replacement chassis with such a mistake, so my question is:

the arms are not symmetric from the factory or there is something wrong?

Anyone had the same problem?

I can solve it cutting the sleeve but then I need to compensate the gap on the outer side with washers or something similar and it seems a bad solution for me.

Any help or suggestion?

Thanks.

Giorgio

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hi Giorgio, ive just put mine back on both sides are the same. lotus334.jpg

the other side looks the same. hope that helps, cheers paul

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Hi, here some pics of the different sleeves

100_5300.jpg

100_5299.jpg

100_5298.jpg

100_5297.jpg

I think I have a serious issue...

Giorgio

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yep that looks like its to long, mine are the same lenth both sides and i do have the same car as you. i think you may be doing a bit of cutting.

Edited by frix

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Hi mate thanks for your post.

Yes, the solution would be a cut on the sleeve and then re-weld the cutted piece on the other side to compensate, I don't think would be good to use washer, what do you think guys?

Giorgio

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I'd say compare it with wheels etc on. Don't go by just the position relative to the frame, for all we know it could be the frame itself is a few mm out and that tube is aligned so that the mounting points are within spec before being welded in place. I'm not saying it is right, just that it could be.

You could as a rough guide just measure fro a certain point at the back of the chassis that's likely to be even both sides (radius arm bush hole?) to the tube. Repeat for the other side and compare measurements.

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HI Andy,

that's a good advice thanks but the fact is that the upper-lower bottom joints centre are not alligned as the other side are, so I will take the measurements as you suggested but I don't think the suspension set-up would be good on this side if the joints are so mis-alligned?

Giorgio

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I too doubt it's going to align well based on how it looks, I just think you'd be far from happy if you cut and welded it to make it symmetrical about the upright and subsequently (after building the body to it) find you need to undo that work to get it all to line up. I know that if I found that there would be several tolls flying out of my hands and several nasty words flying from my mouth.

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I think a bit of very careful measuring is the first thing to do. If you can set the front suspension to the same level each side, then measure from the centre of each top ball joint back to a point at the rear of the car, on the exact centre line. The measurement each side ought to be the same. If they are, then the suspension alignment would be correct....looking at the way the upper wishbone is offset, though, it does look like something has gone wrong with the chassis build.

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HI John,

not easy to take some measurements as I have not all the parts to set-up the front suspensions but that aside I've tried to mount the wishbone without the 6 mm washer on and the arm is perfectly alligned as the two ball joints, upper and lower.

The theory that this has been made to compensate a little mis-allignment on the whole chassis seems to me not possible as the lower link is perfectly centered and in that case I think also the lower arm should have been mis-alligned as the top, also like now it is the top arm is touching the spring so...

I'm waiting an answer from the factory about that and in case the verdict will be that it's a "wrong chassis" i think I will give up, I'm very disappointed.

Giorgio

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Dont give up just move onto something else for a while. A nice cup of tea always does the trick. Paul

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Aaaahhhhh.....Giorgio.....don't give up. I don't think you are the giving up type, actually.....you might need a bit of a break from it, but you'll come back to it later. I had a Benelli 500 sport which burnt a hole through a piston...fitting a new one, I broke a piston ring and could NOT find all the bits. Thought there must be bits of piston ring in the sump....demoralised, I gave up....and went on to something else. A couple of years later I found the errant bit of piston ring stuck in the wooden roof of the shed...so returned to the fray with new enthusiasm and this time it all worked!!

Given that the lower link is properly aligned, it does look as if the top sleeve has been welded in the wrong position. This could be fixed by carefully cutting the "too long" bit to the correct length and turning up a spacer to extend the "too short" bit so that the geometry is correct. Lots of kit cars do this as a matter of course, using multiple washers to set the alignment until it is correct, then making up specific spacers to replace them. Having the top link displaced will mainly affect the castor angle....this should, iirc, be 3 deg +/- 30' and within 30' side to side. This you can measure after assembling the front suspension, no need to do all of it, just the links and uprights to get the castor angle. If you have that correct, then all should be well; I would suggest that you cut the sleeve as discussed and then do the measurements.

Good luck, chum....

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Thanks John.... :P

ok, just received a beautiful answer from the Factory...

....Regarding the chassis this is what engineering have advised;

The Tube lengths of 142 mm are correct so we know nothing has been modified there. This Chassis was manufactured in the early 1990s (it is now about 20 years old) and no records remain from that long ago, other than the Chassis was sold in 1999 (13 years ago).

From what we can see on the pictures Charlie recons the L/H Tube position is correct.

Tube will need 5 mm cut of and 5mm spacer added.

The R/H Tube looks to be out of position by about what looks like 5 mm (from the measurements supplied by Giorgio)

To recover to the correct position the rear of the R/H Tube needs to be cut down to equal that of the L/H Tube.

A Spacer would have to be added to the Front of the R/H Tube to produce the correct tube length (142 mm).

Hopefully this should give Giorgio some guidance on what to do.

I think he should do some more measuring to ensure that everything else checks out before he modifies the tube.

I don’t think we can really do anything more as we no longer have the Chassis Welding Jigs to check anything else out

Regards

So, it's a good news, little job to do as it can be just one way, only,... just a thought:

I was very lucky to find a brand new chassis thanks to Buddy's help etc.. but at the end I have spent 1000 euro for the part, now if my only option had been to order a new one from Lotus, six month wait and something near 4000 Euro shipping included...I think I would be more than sorry... that's is not serious at all, there is not a quality control at the Factory? :2guns:

I will post some pics of the job soon.

Ciao

Giorgio

Edited by ghe67

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A nice positive reply...at least there's someone left who knew what it ought to look like.... As for ordering a new chassis from Lotus... very difficult as it seems they no longer have the chassis welding jigs!! I wonder where they went.....!

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