free hit
counters
Julian Assange - General Chat - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


IGNORED

Julian Assange


Bibs

Recommended Posts

If he's a suspected rapist, shouldn't he just go and face the music? :huh:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 19
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Then again... he's exposed a vast amount of corruption, torture, war crimes, etc,etc and pi$$ed off some of the most powerful, people on the planet. The charges in Sweden could be rather too convenient but then I'm amazed he's not had an unfortunate 'accident... one advantage of having such a high profile.

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People have encountered accidents for far less. Imagine the consequences of releasing a film of US troops indiscriminately shooting civilians.

No charges have been laid, the Swedish police have been invited to question him both on British soil and within the Ecuadorian Embassy and have refused. Today an American paper has obtained (under freedom of information) evidence that the US still wants him.

Apparently one of the women involved in the allegations was asleep, if I made love to a women and she remained asleep I'd shoot myself.

I agree with sentiments of facing ones accusers the music and all that but I have misgivings about this one.

The way the UK has handled this whole affair has brought international ridicule on the current government. How much money did they just spend on the Olympics creating good will ? Because they've just chucked it down the toilet.

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot condone a foreign power for allowing a person who is accused of criminal activity (not convicted) who is on bail in a country that goes with human rights laws (like many there is the odd infringement which is then corrected), and they then attempt to prevent the law enforcement of that country from detaining him.

If he had diplomatic immunity (during the event of the alleged criminal activity) then I could possibly see reason for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People have encountered accidents for far less. Imagine the consequences of releasing a film of US troops indiscriminately shooting civilians.

No charges have been laid, the Swedish police have been invited to question him both on British soil and within the Ecuadorian Embassy and have refused. Today an American paper has obtained (under freedom of information) evidence that the US still wants him.

Apparently one of the women involved in the allegations was asleep, if I made love to a women and she remained asleep I'd shoot myself.

I agree with sentiments of facing ones accusers the music and all that but I have misgivings about this one.

The way the UK has handled this whole affair has brought international ridicule on the current government. How much money did they just spend on the Olympics creating good will ? Because they've just chucked it down the toilet.

I'm in complete agreement with you there, but not on rear wings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I would like to see is our completely incompetent government (AKA Ju-liar) stand up and say we're giving him free passage home and we'll protect him. She would actually win a fair few browny points within Australia and overseas which currently she has diddly squat.

If wikileaks was releasing North Korean secrets, JA would have received a Nobel Peace prize for his efforts.

Simon  (94 S4)      My Esprit will be for sale in late 2017

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The situation is certainly a dubious one-I am put in mind of those UN Iraqi weapons inspectors (who happened to be American) whose personal sexual lives were suddenly "exposed" after they expressed doubts that WMD existed, before the 2003 invasion. If you were a Government with embarrassing secrets to hide and want to dent a whistle-blower`s overall credibility and create a moral dilemma to split opinion, there`s nothing better than accusing your accuser of pervy conduct. However I acknowledge its possible that Assange himself has made it easier for them to do that.

The CIA has committed so many "dirty tricks" in its history, particularly in its South American "backyard", that a backlash from that region in favour of Assange was inevitable. Ex-CIA Agent Philip Agee`s book "CIA Diary" is the standard work about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's my understanding that it wasn't a rape charge and the Swedish law on sexual assualt is different from us. On top of that the 2 women involved dropped charges before. It was only after the leaked docs came out that he was recharged. It's all very suspect.

I do truely believe that he would be sent to the US if he went to Sweden and though I totally despise any sexual assault I do believe his rights would be forfeit of he ended up in the US.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Laura, I think the answer to that question as far as I can gather from the Web is primarily :

1. The UKs extradition treaty does not have the "temporary surrender clause" in Swedish extradition law (ie if Assange gets extradited from here to the US it is only after a full hearing entailing a long procedure-if Assange was in Sweden, my understanding is that their law allows him to be detained in the US pending resolution of the issue. Given the inhuman treatment they`re giving Wikileak`s Bradley Manning they certainly won`t be nice to Assange !

In short it is apparently easier for the US to grab him from Sweden under the "cover" of his transfer to Sweden for the sex offence investigation.

It should be noted that Assange has already agreed to be interviewed by Swedish investigators in the UK but they have refused, not sure why not.

2. Extraditing him directly to the US from the UK would now cause a complex legal conflict with the Swedish request on top of the delaym in the request itself- Gary McKinnons extradition case is now 8 years old .

3. Public pressure in the UK against extradition would be greater (again thinking of the current Gary McKinnon case).

4. Linked to point 1 above, apparently Sweden has a record of unquestioningly complying with requests from the US without parliamentary scrutiny. Purely from Assange`s point of view, English law and procedure is easier to understand immediately and offers a better chance of challenge.

5. As the president of Ecuador said; "the UK didn`t extradite General Pinochet to Spain when he was accused of the murder of dozens of Europeans, so why are they suddenly so eager to extradite Assange?"

6. The US law is uncertain over what Assange has actually done to them that`s criminal, apart from hugely embarrassing them. ie. they will argue he`s a "spy" and has revealed state secrets but is that a serious enough crime in peacetime ? What enemy is he working for ? None.

It is redolent of the case of the "Miami 5" where five Cuban agents were sentenced to twenty years in a US jail for sending information about Cuban exile groups in Miami back to Cuba (ie it was not information affecting US state security).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But surely it now has nothing to do with the UK?

He has been given refuge by Ecuador and surely it is now up to Sweden/US/Ecuador to sort it out. The fact he happens to be in the embassy in the UK is irrelevant. The British should let him go to Ecuador then we don't have any involvement and we save all the current costs of the police presence etc.

Dave - 2000 Sport 350
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting article on the legal situation...

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition

One: “The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law”

This is flatly untrue. The Assange legal team argued this twice before English courts, and twice the English courts ruled clearly that the allegation would also constitute rape under English law.

(See my post at Jack of Kent for further detail on this.)

Two: “Assange is more likely to be extradited to USA from Sweden than the United Kingdom”

This is similarly untrue. Any extradition from Sweden to the United States would actually be more difficult. This is because it would require the consent of both Sweden and the United Kingdom.

(See Francis FitzGibbon QC’s Nothing Like the Sun for further detail on this.)

One can add that there is no evidence whatsoever that the United Kingdom would not swiftly comply with any extradition request from the United States; quite the reverse. Ask Gary McKinnon, or Richard O'Dwyer, or the NatWest Three.

In reality, the best opportunity for the United States for Assange to be extradited is whilst he is in the United Kingdom.

Three: “Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA”

It would not be legally possible for Swedish government to give any guarantee about a future extradition, and nor would it have any binding effect on the Swedish legal system in the event of a future extradition request.

By asking for this 'guarantee', Assange is asking the impossible, as he probably knows. Under international law, all extradition requests have to be dealt with on their merits and in accordance with the applicable law; and any final word on an extradition would (quite properly) be with an independent Swedish court, and not the government giving the purported 'guarantee'.

(See extradition and criminal lawyer Niall McCluskey for further detail on this.)

Also Sweden (like the United Kingdom) is bound by EU and ECHR law not to extradite in circumstances where there is any risk of the death penalty or torture. There would be no extradition to the United States in such circumstances.

(See Mark Klamberg’s blog for further information on this.)

Four: “The Swedes should interview Assange in London”

This is currently the most popular contention of Assange’s many vocal supporters. But this too is based on a misunderstanding.

Assange is not wanted merely for questioning.

He is wanted for arrest.

This arrest is for an alleged crime in Sweden as the procedural stage before charging (or “indictment”). Indeed, to those who complain that Assange has not yet been charged, the answer is simple: he cannot actually be charged until he is arrested.

It is not for any person accused of rape and sexual assault to dictate the terms on which he is investigated, whether it be Assange or otherwise. The question is whether the Swedish investigators can now, at this stage of the process, arrest Assange.

Here the best guide is the High Court judgment. In paragraph 140, the Court sets out the prosecutor’s position, and this should be read in full be anyone following this case:

140. Mr Assange contended prior to the hearing before the Senior District Judge that the warrant had been issued for the purpose of questioning Mr Assange rather than prosecuting him and that he was not accused of an offence. In response to that contention, shortly before that hearing, Mrs Ny provided a signed statement dated 11 February 2011 on behalf of the Prosecutor:

"6. A domestic warrant for [Julian Assange's] arrest was upheld [on] 24 November 2010 by the Court of Appeal, Sweden. An arrest warrant was issued on the basis that Julian Assange is accused with probable cause of the offences outlined on the EAW.

"7. According to Swedish law, a formal decision to indict may not be taken at the stage that the criminal process is currently at. Julian Assange's case is currently at the stage of "preliminary investigation". It will only be concluded when Julian Assange is surrendered to Sweden and has been interrogated.

"8. The purpose of a preliminary investigation is to investigate the crime, provide underlying material on which to base a decision concerning prosecution and prepare the case so that all evidence can be presented at trial. Once a decision to indict has been made, an indictment is filed with the court. In the case of a person in pre-trial detention, the trial must commence within 2 weeks. Once started, the trial may not be adjourned. It can, therefore be seen that the formal decision to indict is made at an advanced stage of the criminal proceedings. There is no easy analogy to be drawn with the English criminal procedure. I issued the EAW because I was satisfied that there was substantial and probable cause to accuse Julian Assange of the offences.

"9. It is submitted on Julian Assange's behalf that it would be possible for me to interview him by way of Mutual Legal Assistance. This is not an appropriate course in Assange's case. The preliminary investigation is at an advanced stage and I consider that is necessary to interrogate Assange, in person, regarding the evidence in respect of the serious allegations made against him.

"10. Once the interrogation is complete it may be that further questions need to be put to witnesses or the forensic scientists. Subject to any matters said by him, which undermine my present view that he should be indicted, an indictment will be lodged with the court thereafter. It can therefore be seen that Assange is sought for the purpose of conducting criminal proceedings and that he is not sought merely to assist with our enquiries."

And in paragraph 160 of the same judgment, the High Court explains why such a requirement is not “disproportionate” as submitted by Assange’s lawyers:

160. We would add that although some criticism was made of Ms Ny in this case, it is difficult to say, irrespective of the decision of the Court of Appeal of Svea, that her failure to take up the offer of a video link for questioning was so unreasonable as to make it disproportionate to seek Mr Assange's surrender, given all the other matters raised by Mr Assange in the course of the proceedings before the Senior District Judge.

The Prosecutor must be entitled to seek to apply the provisions of Swedish law to the procedure once it has been determined that Mr Assange is an accused and is required for the purposes of prosecution.

Under the law of Sweden the final stage occurs shortly before trial. Those procedural provisions must be respected by us given the mutual recognition and confidence required by the Framework Decision; to do otherwise would be to undermine the effectiveness of the principles on which the Framework Decision is based. In any event, we were far from persuaded that other procedures suggested on behalf of Mr Assange would have proved practicable or would not have been the subject of lengthy dispute.

Five: “By giving Assange asylum, Ecuador is protecting freedom of the press”

This is perhaps the strangest proposition.

Ecuador has a woeful record on freedom of the press. It is 104th in the index of world press freedom, and even the quickest glance at the examples of press abuse in Ecuador accumulated by Reporters Without Borders and Index on Censorship indicate a regime with a starkly dreadful and illiberal record on freedom of expression.

It has even recently been reported that a blogger called Alexander Barankov is to be extradited by Ecuador to Belarus, of all places, where he may face the death penalty.

Whatever the reason for Ecuador granting political asylum to Assange, there is no basis for seeing it as based on any sincere concern for media freedom either in Ecuador or elsewhere.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Written by an American.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brummie with English Law degree...

http://en.wikipedia....vid_Allen_Green

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...