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project #099 -- Destination silly fast

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Well, as some of you may know, I have bought another Esprit. I purchased #099, a chrome Orange 2002 V8. I was working on the car for a while, trying to diagnose some minor gremlins and after sinking a pile of time into it without a result, So.. I decided to buy it instead. Here's a few pics of her:

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So.. I had a minor "Rattle" or "knock" in lower gears, so I pulled the engine and transmission.. I have however decided that I am getting way too efficient at this... Myself and Gary pulled the transmission in 1.5 hours... and then, I, by myself, removed the engine in 2.5 hours... lol.. Here's the photographic progress of what I have done so far..

This time, I pulled the intake plenum off and then removed the harness from the engine, instead of pulling the harness off of the chassis and leaving it attached to the engine.

EC769F3F-A610-47B3-8010-D184875A32BE-9549-000004DA892173BE.jpg

Here's the bay.. empty

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Here's the engine on the ground..

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This "P clip" was put on backwards and was pushing the heat shield off of its mounts.. this may have been the source of the ratte.. so I decided to trim the heat shields a bit, to ensure no further rattling.

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So, next I decided to check engine internals. The pistons had been upgraded to the usual JE pistons.. However, I am going to be getting different custom pistons by JE shortly. I know that the clearance was a little over tolerance when the engine was built and this is likely what caused the pre-mature wear.

01055E29-BE0E-4863-8D6E-AC3C7879F440-9549-000004DAD8DD4464.jpg

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Now, here's a picture of the heads.. and a shot of the block, stripped of heads etc..

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So.. I will be shipping the block off to a trusted friend, along with the crankshaft -- as there was some bearing wear as well -- to get fully balanced and figure out what type/design of piston we will use for the build.

Now.. the next little issue I was having was random stalling.. here's a shot of the Idle air control valve in its "closed position".. it appears as if, when it was "closed" it was actually partially open in the opposite direction of the valve opening. So, when the computer was trying to add a little bit of idle air, it was actually closing the valve. Luckily, this valve is only $150.. so at least that won't break the bank..

C937F436-F484-48AE-9AE0-90628833B996-9549-000004DABDB7248B.jpg

...So now you're probably wondering... what is the plan?

Well, The car already has hybrid turbo's, so I can get the boost levels I will need. I will likely be repeating most of Aerobat's build, but I'm working on using slightly larger intercoolers and I have a transmission upgrade in mind that may or may not work.. so I will keep that under my hat until i have figured it out. The horsepower destination will be no less than 550WHP. This project will not be fast, as I have a lot of bills at the moment and the build cost will be likely in the range of $30,000 in parts alone. I expect to do the pistons this winter and then, next year, I will either do the transmission or just begin stock piling parts. I do intend to drive the car this summer, so I don't want to go too deep this year.

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..The pistons had been upgraded to the usual JE pistons.. However, I am going to be getting different custom pistons by JE shortly. I know that the clearance was a little over tolerance when the engine was built and this is likely what caused the pre-mature wear.

..as I still have an 're bored' set of liners (the worn old ones from my engine) ..and generally like the upgraded pistions

The question is:

what is the ID-number of those 'usual' pistons, as everytime Mike or someone other had mentioned the upspeced pistons there was no reference given on the actual part.

Is it just an interchange piston with a type of the more frequently sold pistons for Japanes tune cars, based on the measurement of the bore ..? Can you post the partnumber under what this set of pistons is available ?

..the idle-air valve is an common European (Bosch)part, as it looks, so if you post the partnumber I think I can find an cheaper one over here that is also available for your rebuild -if you need

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Hi Gunter!! Long time no chat! I will get the ID numbers for you this evening. I'm sure we can come to a mutually beneficial agreement. I have also looked into the idle air control valve and it is from a volvo of sorts. The used ones are about $70 and the new ones are closer to $150. I'm okay to buy new on that, as I don't want a repeat of exactly the same problem.

One other thing to add is that I will likely be selling off my transmission next winter as well. I'm just putting that out into the ether for the moment. It will depend on if my new transmission plans actually work out or not.

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Alright.. the piston part number is: E0306-918HP.. hope that helps!

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So JE-pistons actuall created an *918*-related partnumber in some ways, interesting

..you should add that into the reference section for the V8 please.

As I guess in future there will no rebuild be done with factory pistons anymore (those remained amounts would run out anyway..)

-so it is good to have the name & number of actual available alternatives in the references for everyone.

*********

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Idle-control-valve-VR6-eng-VW-Corrado-Golf-Passat-Vento-/230841860017?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35bf3f3fb1

..is the IAC-valve number on the casing on your valve one of the 0 280 140 512 - or 034 133 455 B family ?

should also be possible to dismantle this part, and in some ways 'repair' the sticky stepper body -I know that you are skilled and fearless enough to look deeper into things that do not work for the moment ;)

Edited by Günter

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Thanks Gunter, These pistons are 8.5:1 compression as opposed to the factory 8:1. I will be having something different built as well, so I can probably offer those for sale in the future too. as for the IAC valve.. I could tear it apart... should be fun.. but it is pressed together with pinch points to hold it as such. As for the part number on the IAC -- 0 280 140 516 is the part number..

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by the way, JE noted that for 'special production' products everyone should ask prior to any planned work, as all those *one off* pistons are not listed somewhere ..or with other words the Lot* numbers of those series are not noted within the page-search algorithm.

Have emailed them, we will see what happens -as it is only worth if we -the potential future cutomers- can get them for real

(not only your set, I mean an real available product, even in future -for restorations ..in case that enough *918 engines survive until that, for the next 20years or so ..)

*as for the IAC-valve: the one I've posted in the link above should work, and it is 'new production' ..so how much is this und Canadian Dollars until it is in your hands -maybe worth a try

..same is for the black 'third party' production that you can also see in ebay (use 'worldwide' as search option, there is a lot of this going around in Europe --and most of them are much cheaper

***

or, how's that ? ..not the exact match by number -but basically the working principle and flow direction should be the same ..and if the gab on the stepper body is not the same the ECM tries to learn anyway

http://www.autoparts...REPV313202.html

Edited by Günter

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Hey Mark, long time no chat! Gorgeous car! This one didn't come out of Winnipeg, did it? There was an identical one to this that came in just before I got mine and I know that owner did some motor work and upgraded turbos locally here.

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Mark, tere is still no response in terms of pistons, have mailed JE ..but no reaction so far on your piston/ ID-numbers

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@ Steve, Yes, it is the car from Manitoba that you are thinking of. How's the Maserati?

 

@ Gunter, let me know how you progress with the information from JE.

 

As for the rest of the build, it's going to be just the motor this year, but next year --- mmmmmm, I can't wait!

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Nice, gorgeous car.  Remember seeing it at the dealer who imported it for the owner in Manitoba.  Sealed the deal for me buying my white one.  Maserati has been great, but definitely thinking of getting into another Esprit again.  Always thought an F355 might be for me, but reading all your threads about the interesting things you have done to the Esprit relights that old flame for me!  Definitely can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve for this one, especially on the tranny side of things!  If you got an idea for putting a better transmission in the car that will definitely draw me back!!

 

Probably gonna be passing through Medicine hat sometime in the next while, you'll have to get me your number again.  Would definitely like to catch up and see whats goin on, if you have the time!!

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Mark, tere is still no response in terms of pistons, have mailed JE ..but no reaction so far on your piston/ ID-numbers

 

FYI, it may take a little time, the Performance Racing Industry trade show was last weekend in Orlando and pretty much everyone in the industry attends. On top of that, there's a second similar show in Indy this weekend. I would think they would be back to business as usual in another week or two. Good luck with the projects! :cheers:

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@steve: I have begun the process of test fitting a transmission, it will require some very interesting modifications, but I really expect that it can be made into a bolt up kit that would only take about 4 hours to install. My r and d time will likely be 50-70 hours to make it work though.

As for the rest of the project.. I will be discussing some more interesting options with the engine builder on Monday/Tuesday. But.. My thinking is a 3.7 liter stroker forged crank.. It does depend on the cost of the crank. I am also considering doing billet pistons instead of forged pistons. The cost will increase, but I am planning to sell everything that I don't need. Hopefully this bottom end doesn't cost more than $5000..

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@steve: I have begun the process of test fitting a transmission, it will require some very interesting modifications, but I really expect that it can be made into a bolt up kit that would only take about 4 hours to install. My r and d time will likely be 50-70 hours to make it work though.

As for the rest of the project.. I will be discussing some more interesting options with the engine builder on Monday/Tuesday. But.. My thinking is a 3.7 liter stroker forged crank.. It does depend on the cost of the crank. I am also considering doing billet pistons instead of forged pistons. The cost will increase, but I am planning to sell everything that I don't need. Hopefully this bottom end doesn't cost more than $5000..

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Well, apparently, all the tuning shops shut down for Xmas, but I should be able to find something to do while I wait for my v8.. Maybe I should do some work to my old 88?? My goodness, would my wife love me if I did that..

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Mark, car looks great. 

 

Sent you a message with contact info if you have a minute..

 

Stu

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Ok, so in order to do the stroker kit, I will need 4 buyers. The price is not quite nailed down yet. I have decided to just to billet pistons this year. However, I think i will be Persuing the idea of the stroker kit next season. That is, unless I can line up 4 buyers this year.. I do expect the price to be about $7000CAD each. The kit would include billet pistons, forged rods and forged pistons. If anybody is truly interested, pm me please.

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so bigger stroke, as the name *stroker kit*  implies

..what actuall means you end up with a different crank dimension, and the 'forged pistons' in your last sentence are meant as 'forged crank'  that is included in the kit as replacement, not forged pistons ?!

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Gunter- I will not be using forged pistons in the kit. The expansion behaviors of forged pistons are too drastic for my liking. Billet pistons are stronger than forged pistons and have similar expansion qualities to cast pistons. This means that the pistons won't rock as much in the liner when the engine is cold. So, the kit, should I acquire a large enough number of interested parties, would include a longer stroke forged crank, similar length forged rods and shorter wrist pin to deck height billet pistons. This should result in an engine that can handle upwards of 600-700hp. It would also make the turbos come "on line" a little lower in the rev range and should spoil slightly quicker as well.

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so just fit your last comment into post #18, as some owners could be irritated by the line (with no crank mentioned)

 

"..The kit would include billet pistons, forged rods and forged pistons. .."

 

 

If this engine-kit is advertised correctly, with some pictures of your work in the next months .. offered together with a chargecooler kit as well ..you could have a good chance to get some interest -just my guess

 

 

 

 

-but on the HP rate you mentioned ..I would think that as log as the bearing size stays the same here on those rods, the wear & tear of a 700HP output does harm the system to much ??

Edited by Günter

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Alright, i will update that post after this post.

The basic idea for this season will be just to upgrade to billet pistons. The reason for this decision is that I have to buy all 4 "stroker kits" up front and I simply don't have the funding available at this moment to do that. However, should there be sufficient interest, I will peruse it next season.

The hp I am speaking of is more a matter of what might be achievable given proper tuning. When discussing the capabilities of the engine with mike Sekinger, he said that he thought the engine could handle about 700hp on the stock block. This kind of hp number is not likely possible on the factory ECM, unless I am able to hack the software over the next year. My current plan is to achieve 500 ft-lbs of torque and between 600 and 650hp with the stroker kit. Sekinger also believed that the factory crank could only handle about 550hp... Which is the main reason for the stroker kit. If Aerobats esprit (which is up for offers at the moment) had forged or billet pistons and upgraded turbos, we would have put down closer to 550hp on the dyno. However, since he is still running the factory cast pistons, I didn't think it was wise to lean the mixture out just for a "dyno number". I will say, however, that while I was doing some road tuning, I did go about 0.2 afr points leaner than target in one section of the map and it kicked like a donkey. (I did tune it back immediately after though.) So, I know the power is available with billet pistons in place. Aerobats car at the moment, however, feels about as quick... No.. Quicker than a straight-piped Lamborghini diablo 6.0.

As for the bearing size, I haven't determined enough of the design yet to say if they will remain the same.

It would appear that I am unable to edit my post... Hmm.. Could be an iPhone issue?

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..if the post is to old ..it stays there, as it looks

 

-anyway, Mike can say what he wants ..his engine projects only showed up perfectly prepared for the dynos, not how this kind of engine internally looks like after some years in real life (with trackdays and wear & tear on different 'run in' temperatures do to real owner characteristics  ..)  

 

-so it was sadly never compared to a 'stock from factory' system with lower power output.

 

..the dimension of the balance weights and flanges will limit you to go any bigger in bearing wide, as long as you use a factory crank and factory rod offset

Edited by Günter

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I agree about the rod offset. There would be some serious design/engineering issues to overcome with a slightly bigger stroke. However, once again, quoting mike -- he believed it was possible to do a 4.0 liter stroked and bored n/a engine. I don't believe that a bigger bore is safe though. Having looked at how close the liners are and the gap between each bore inner lining, I just don't think that one would want more than a 10-20 thou increase in bore. Even that, I would want aftermarket liners.

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you can choose a different base design, with a 'inlay' set of combined liners, dropped into the main block.   

 

There is one guy over here, he owns a machine company for such things -and he created his own 2L inline four, out of the "weak" Rover Kseries,

 

01.jpg

 

http://www.koeth-werkzeugbau.de/



there is also a point to mention with your change in 'crankpin offset' to 'rod length'  ..as this not only interferes ith the block shape, it also infuences the running characteristics and frequency of the mass.  Just draw it on paper and you can see how the ways the big end has do run on the lower half circle and on the top of the circle differ

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