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ragingfool35

Big Brake kit--very reasonably priced

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I decided to give my ride a Christmas present. A while back Michael Ried sent me info on a brake kit he helped develop with a US company for a very resonable price, so i contacted them. Unfortunately, they lost the info for the rear kit in a harddrive crash, so i have been working with them to develop it again. Anyway, 330mm 1.1" thk vented and drilled all around, with 4 pots and parking and braided hoses and all hardware. all brackets machined, deburred and powder coated.

the whole 4 wheel deal for $2500.

if any interested, i believe i could arrange that price for a group buy of 5 or more

however, i have not finished installation or even driven so more to come around Christmas time

post-144-0-36511500-1353045600.jpgpost-144-0-68304300-1353045601.jpgpost-144-0-40510400-1353045602.jpgpost-144-0-95546100-1353045603.jpgpost-144-0-99011100-1353045604.jpgpost-144-0-23967600-1353045606.jpg

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The willwood stuff is not really anything I would put on a car....Better to buy a used rebuilt set of AP's! The rotors look like oem style with holes drilled for looks. If you want to spend 2500 to 2700 there are MUCH better alternatives out there even if you only covered the front! Sorry to sound so mean but it's how I feel about china made cheapo Bill wood brakes.....

Edited by Bentzion

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Just an eagle eyed note...in the pic of the rear setup (says 'right' on the disc) I hope its a funny camera angle, because both calipers do not look like theyre sitting central and lined up correctly with the disc..like theyre slightly at an angle or off centre...noticable by the inner edge of the calipers relation to the centre bell...also, any reason for having the handbrake on top?

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@Darren, the calipers are not fitted (with screws..) -that's why it looks strange I would say

@redrocket:

the other thing is -what does the 4 stud Citroen hub/gearbox comparison mean ..is this set aimed for an overall conversion to outboard brakes, or generally for the Renault type hubs ?

.. and if you say '330mm all round' -is this an brake kit with identical discs front/rear, thos that the disc fit onto both hubs ..in a way that you could interchange from rear to the usual more worn out front one in case of ?? (would be some priority on any brake kit conversion if you ask mee)

Edited by Günter

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short look into the parts list says:

the disc I mentioned is for the front brake, prior to the Brembo brake/outside disc system, right ?

..just thought it is a four stud, but the irritating mounting face is not meant for the wheel side ..sorry

-so anyway, my question still is: are those disc created as interchangeable parts ?

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Gunter

no the hat offsets and bores are different front and rear, but 330mm dia front and rear

Darren

the calipers are not mounted in the photos, still working out the rear bracket arrangement

Bentzion

i have no experience with willwood. please quantify your aversion to the calipers and rotors. you have used them? they dont work well? TIR on rotors always high?

i imagine they will be at least as good as the stock hardware. Reid was happy with his setup, At that price, i believe i will be as well. i will report in a month or so :)

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Cheapest Speed.pdf

"Bentzion

i have no experience with willwood. please quantify your aversion to the calipers and rotors. you have used them? they dont work well? TIR on rotors always high?

This ought to explain why Willwood doesn't even equate into anything that resemble a "good" brake system.

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Bentzion, dos the PDF-document say something new ?

..if you tell him that heat transfer rates from pads to alumiunium pistons, and the 'shield effects' of outboard ballance pipes vs. inner bore hydraulic connections for the fluid are an factor ..or the effects of 'build' calipers vs. 'one piece' versions is something to mention, maybe he sees more clearly what you intent to point out

;)

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You would be surprised how many teams that are very wealthy and supposedly at the top of their game dont know these things or factor them into their go fast formulas. I feel as if I have gone a little far....I just figured Lotus people want more performance then the guy who buys the BIG RED BREMBO'S that look SOOOO GOOOD :thumbsup:

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maybe those teams just ne to have at least one good engineer .. LOL

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True that.. When we tested with Robbie Gordon the Crew never set up his car the way we wanted him to do so in order to feel the difference in the handling. His understudy drove a set up car and said he loved the brakes but alas Robbie writes the checks so......

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All good stuff..

Was trying to attach some pics to PM but didn't succeed to here we go: 600% more cooling surface and 40 man hours to build each.

post-9415-0-87211100-1353116269.jpg

post-9415-0-88897400-1353116371.jpg

Edited by ramjet

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..'googled' Mr. Gordon -does he really need good brakes ?

seems that he is most time up in the air, and an European Rally driver once told me something in the way of:

'you're not fast in the air, as only contact to the ground makes you go' ..

just a joke ;)

as for the brake, mention that for the aimed ventilation gains -you also need to know the type/style of rims the teams plan to use

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The test was for his sprint cup team. But his dirt team can use some help too.... Great driver though.

We do a lot with Baja etc...

http://brakingout.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/luke-mcmillin/

http://brakingout.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/ricky-johnson-grabs-televsised-torc-win-at-chicagoland-speedway-with-tbm-brakes/

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ahh yes, i dont intend to race or compete in any manner so the effort is indeed more aesthetic. certainly that would entail different selection criteria and financial commitment. there is nothing wrong with the stock parts for daily driving for that matter, even on my non-brembo SE. i did track the car one day and experienced brake fade for the first time after 5 laps on a tight track. (any speed thrill i get comes from my 10, the car draws too much attention and pales in comparison to the bike). i doubt the Wilwoods have the rigidity of the stock units, but i probably wont notice any difference even if i did have a lick of skill and it wasnt always in the garage...but i'll have to refrain from judgement until i have driven them a bit

cheers

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@Bentzion: would be interesting to hear how this brake actually runs under load .. hot & cold

..even knowing that sounds only matter on mass-production systems, for road going cars .. as an racer not really cares about 'frequency interferences' and characteristics of natural/resontant frequency in a system

Edited by Günter

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Wilwoods are fine for the street or light track days (non pro racers). Beware that they do not usually have dust seals, so you will need to keep the caliper pistons clean and possibly rebuild them with new o-rings more often.

The Wilwood pad choices are usually really good, as they use common Brembo sizes. Thermal transfer won't be as good as the latest tech full-race brakes from Brembo or AP. And the rotors are Pillar type, so not quite as good as vaned. But they will work great for your use Chris.

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@Bentzion: would be interesting to hear how this brake actually runs under load .. hot & cold

..even knowing that sounds only matter on mass-production systems, for road going cars .. as an racer not really cares about 'frequency interferences' and characteristics of natural/resontant frequency in a system

interesting that you should bring up frequencies as the thermal cycles we employ for stress and longevity also change vibration characteristics in the metal.

As i cannot share actual data from race teams data loggers I can send you some test results that we have from the caliper side I.e. repeated clamping strength. On a bench test alone we showed a 35% increase in rigidity and reduced heat buildup over a vastly more expensive Brembo/AP setup. But when you dont spend your money wisely on marketing or have a lack of...Welll you know that outcome.

PM me and ill send as much tech info as I can (if your interested)

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all I see is those vanes/rips ..and that reminds me on an air-cooled cylinder head -where the rips can cause specific frequency reactions, and even can brake of over time as for the combined stress of thermal load changes and vibration

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5 months back we got back two of the same rotors that were used for 10 (read TEN) seasons in racing in Norway. They were sold by the original purchaser to the current owner and we blanchard ground them and installed new hats, THAT"S ALL. They are still being used on a race car. They are designed for: LMP car, V8 supercars, 24 hours racing. Otherwise you can't justify spending $1800 each.

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as I say, it's focussed on racing .. this is a different world to production car engineering (salt,corrosion ..nothing of that happens on track)

-1800 US-$ is a lot of cash, for the average customer

..anyway good luck with your company

Edited by Günter

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I showed you more then I would have showen normally just because you are an engineer. That Rotor is not a street rotor by any means although people pay waaaaay more for the carbon ceramics. I am not trying to push my product. I merely was making a point.

Thanks

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thanks all for your input, positive and negative

yeah Travis i think they will be groovy for my application. the calipers are the forged superlight interanlly ported with stainless pistions. probably most people who have installed them dont do a tech inspect teardown every year to measure any effect of absense of dust seals, but my research on other forums indicates that after several years of daily driving, no user has reported any problems of any kind either.

really i am very pleased with the quality and ease of installation of the kit. laser cut and powdercoated brackets, complete bolt kits and instructions, choice of color powder coating on all calipers. new color braded lines drop right in. but the test is living with them.

now if i can find a wrecked Audi 2.5 TFSI engine to install...

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