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New Cayman out

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Porsche's policy is that if it breaks due to track use, it's your shout but if it breaks due to a manufacturing defect, the warranty will cover it*. Same as Lotus in real terms.

 

*From a recent conversation with Tonbridge OPC.

From my very recent discussion with my local Porsche dealer the only time they will dispute a claim is if it has been over-revved which is likely if you go from 5th to 6th but engage 4th the ECU records this as a band something or other over-rev which I understand won't be covered but you can drive your car on as many trackdays as you wish and still enjoy the benefits. Now considering I only paid £26K for the car I consider that to be pretty good.

PS this was from the actual dealership technical service guy who actually phoned Porsche GB to get the simple facts for me.

I may have to wait a year or two but my cunning long term plan is that I don't reckon the new Esprit will emerge therefore the existing late Esprits will steadilly gain in value so by the time I've finished getting my V8 up to what I consider pristine it should sell for good money. I could of course be wrong but I would remind everyone of the M250 which certain Lotus people I know actually put a deposit on one.

Edited by B1 RMA

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Ring them up, tell them it won't start after a trackday and last time the engine was running flat out on the back straight it was really noisy, like a bag of old spanners. See what they say then! :lol:

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I'll let you know by the end of the year Bibs as I have a good half a dozen trackdays booked. If there is a problem I can assure you I will shout it from the rooftops.

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I have a plan to get one at £25k.........I'm gonna camp outside of Lotus and every time someone goes past....Beg! You never know, I might get the right man when he's in a good mood!

 

......Actually I hate camping, scrap that.

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David,

Bad form old chap, booking half a dozen track days and not posting anything to give us chance to go :-( come on, post up, need to see how long before you change the bottom links to get rid of the under steer :-)

Trevor.

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I have a plan to get one at £25k.........I'm gonna camp outside of Lotus and every time someone goes past....Beg! You never know, I might get the right man when he's in a good mood!

 

......Actually I hate camping, scrap that.

I think my plan would be the more logical, wait for a few years and get one secondhand. Can't see Lotus being that desperate as to give them away at £25K although they should consider the length of my dedication to the brand but a bit like your camping I'll not hold my breath.

David,

Bad form old chap, booking half a dozen track days and not posting anything to give us chance to go :-( come on, post up, need to see how long before you change the bottom links to get rid of the under steer :-)

Trevor.

I suppose I could ask but I doubt if modifications would be allowed under the Porsche warranty, as I recently found out the guy I bought it off said there was 6 months warranty remaining but when I went down to the local Porsche dealership it actually has over 18 months full warranty left to run so a bit of a bonus. One thing that does really annoy me is the fact I have to stick to N spec tyres for the car otherwise no warranty now thats close to dictatorship me thinks. Plus the new Michelin Pilot Super Sports are so good on the car and have yet to get N approval, still I'll always have the excuse it was the tyres not my driving for the next year or so.

Absolutely right.

 

Go to pistonheads and look at a late '97 Porsche 911 (993) for price (£35k), then look at an early '98 Porsche 911 (996) for price (£10k).

 

You could buy three, maybe four early 1998 cars for the price of one late 1997 car.

 

There are very few used production cars where a jump to the new model means you pay 75% less.

 

The early mass produced water cooled cars are now hitting a value lower than their engine, While the low volume air cooled cars rise and rise...

 

I have no real love for any modern Porsche, Lotus or pretty much anything come to that. In fact all the cars I'd like to own have already been built!!!

:)

 

I can vouch for the build of the pre late 90's cars, and having a 19 year old car where everything has a part number and is available still feels weird.

:thumbsup:

Until quite recently I had exactly the same feeling about modern cars, originally I went out to buy a 2008 997 911 Turbo and the latest additions like active suspension have changed my mind about modern cars, the only thing stopping me was the depreciation factor which according to the sales guy meant a £7k loss if I returned the car in a years time. Compared to the 996 the later 997 Turbo is in my opinion a far better finished car which to a certain degree flatters the driver with all the clever on board gizmo's things like ceramic brakes give you the confidence to stop within distances you never thought possible. I hold my hands up and confess to being a convert to modern cars, but I'm way too tight to go spending my money on brand new ones though as I find the depreciation just something I can't bring myself round to swallowing.

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This thread has come a long way, but having driven both cars let me give you my opinion. I'm not into soul so much, I'm an Engineer and even my wife would never say I'm romantic. :getmecoat: Not that a Toyota engine would ever express soul. 

 

First of would I trade my Evora S, which I use as my definitive daily driver?

  • against a Porsche Cayman? NO! :no
  • against a Porsche 911? NO :no

First off I hate driving the same car as my neighbors and over here there are 2-3 Porkers at every red traffic light. Every dentist drives one! By comparison there are only a handfull of any model Lotus in Hamburg so it is most unlikely there would be a second one at a light. In fact, whenever you do meet its called a gathering.

 

On the performance side I'm sure the Cayman can beat the Evora N/A on track, most likely not the Evora S. But, it does handle excellently and the engine is in the right place. The Cayman has one severe problem and that is that it remains the "little brother" to the 911 and therefore must maintain a gap. I'm sure the plattform would allow much more and could easily beat the 911, but it never will.

 

My mislike of the 911 is more substantial. I want my engine behind me, but not in the trunk! Sure, the 997 and 991 models handle excellently, but only because there is a big electronic brain continuously trying to keep that inherently instable rear engine under control. Of course the 911 can be spectacular on track when you turn of all the three-letter acronyms. But, doing that on your daily drives on the highway at night in the rain is just not a good idea. :censored: Actually there are nowadays so many 911 variants that it becomes hard to keep track. At the same time, there are even more Porkers of the most rare GT2 and GT3-models around than there ever will be Lotus. Then the options list is longer than the new York phone book!

 

So, why is it even worth comparing the Lotus and the Porsche. Well there is one thing where they are simply better and that is the build quality. And that has nothing to do with soul!

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I am  - relating to Thomas - also of the opinion that the cayman would "beat" the 911 if it had the same power. Of course we will never see similiar or higher powered caymans because in that case Porsche could not justify the price of the 911. There are rumors that a 4 litre cayman exists already (build for Ferdinand Piech). It would be very interesting to see how this car drives, handles performs etc esp in relation to a 991.

Edited by oneshot
No need to quote the preceding post

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Interesting to get opinions from two forum members from Germany, and I can understand that they must be as common as muck out there and the appeal of the Evora is obvious. It's also nice to be able to post opinions on two cars that tend to have strong pro and anti feelings about either car which often degenerates into something like a playground spat.

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I'd actually quite like to see another on the road... I mean ONE would be nice!  :smoke:

 

Last trip up to town and back once again was Lotus less. I don't even bother counting Porkers but the odd thing was the amount of Maserati's, I must have seen 10-12 on the round trip. 

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So, much as I hate to go back to the original subject, is the new Cayman actually in the showrooms yet,

Trevor.

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I suppose I could ask but I doubt if modifications would be allowed under the Porsche warranty

A few years ago I was at a dinner with what could only be described as a 'very good customer' of Porsche.  The sort who buy pretty much any special new car Porsche make, and probably get invited to do so well in advance of it being announced.  That year he had bought 4 cars, without any disposals.

 

Anyway, he had chosen to fit a new tracking device to one of his latest purchases.  Porsche promptly told him he had invalidated the warranty.  Not just the bits that would be affected by the fitting of the device but any part.

 

I too have been lucky enough to spend a fair bit of time in a 997 GT3RS and it's probably the only sports car that would tempt me away from a Lotus.  I might be tempted by a later GT3 if I can get a dealer to retrofit the rear seats (all the bolts are in place and my local dealer has said they do the conversion and get it approved by the relevant authorities.)  The engine is a work of art and I defy anyone to hold a long corner at 5000 revs then power out, tail down to 8000 and say they lack emotion.

 

The non GT cars are a bit dull.  That being said, the finish of the new cars is fantastic.

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I can believe that, I am not at all happy about the N tyre business but as the warranty is so comprehensive I'll just go along with it. In answer to your question Trevor I think the new model cayman comes out in Feb/March here I think it's quite nice looking from the pictures I've seen and as with all cars like this will be an absolute bargain after 4 years think of it as being able to have two cars for the price of one albeit a used couple of cars.

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Thread Summary:

 

1. Build quality on Porsches is generally considered to be a notch above most Loti, likely owing to the marque's deeper pockets.

 

2. Hand built cars may or may not be perceived as having "character" surpassing that of assembly line built cars, but likely do.

 

3. Certain Porsches conceivably lack "soul," depending on vintage and model. Specific assessment of this will vary greatly. 

 

4. No matter how improved it may be, by design the Cayman will never be a 911.

 

5. Paul C. is obviously still under the spell of The Dark Side, and may likely never recover, but it's nonetheless good to see him come 'round now and then. :welcome:

 

6. If you track your car, do it late at night when no one's around, especially if they look like they may be Porsche warranty staff.

 

7. If you want to experience both character and soul, and not see your clone at every stoplight, either drive a Lotus or transport your Porsche to Antarctica. :D

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993 considered by many to be the marques high water mark, sort after by cognescenti (my dentist wrote his off a year or so ago and was paid out £33k, the insurers sold the wreck for £22k). Curent Porsche range 4 wheeled-white goods, well engineered, capable but not covetable? Buying/driving a Lotus is always going to be an event/adventure which is one of the reasons I put my ££ there

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The only point I would like to make which is one from a purely driving experience perspective is to drive one of these cars because like me you own a Lotus for whatever reason you see fit. Since buying my Boxster I have let several friends of mine drive my car and like far too many people including me thought of the Cayman/Boxster to either be a poor mans 911 or a girls car which I think is stupid because they are not. I have amongst my circle of friends people who own a Lotus and many other sports car brands, all who have driven my car to date have seriously re-considered their opinion and in two cases have actually decided to buy one. I'm not here to promote a Porsche on a Lotus forum but to hopefully enlighten people, but as the owner and lover of both cars and an enthusiast to boot I can assure you if you have this preconcieved idea about them you may just be wrong. I would also add that I only paid £26K (a 2008 car) for mine which has all the gizmos like active suspension and carbon ceramic brakes etc and for the money is a ridiculously good car and the best £26K I've ever spent. I've heard rumours of a 360 bhp Cayman which should be an awesome piece of kit secondhand a few years down the line. I don't care how common my car is when I'm on a twisty A road somewhere out in the countryside it's the driving buzz that feeds my hunger.

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To be honest if I was buying a daily driver, which in my case involves parking all day in a public car park and carting son #2 to banjo lessons etc then a Porsche would be a wise choice

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This isn't a new model, the Cayman has been about a long time now.

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Yes, but what I meant is they have a new 911, a new boxster, a new cayenne, a new Coxster or revamped versions of them. I know they are a huge company compared to Lotus, but we are always waiting. The exige and elise are revamped occasionally and the Evora is a great car. But Porsche would be thinking about putting it out to grass and introducing a brand new version.

 

There models all seem to have a shorter shelf life. I know people say the 911 is 50 odd years old, but the reality is the new one bears very little to the original. where as the Esprit soldiered on for decades.

 

I cant afford a new one of any make, so not sure why i'm rabbitting on! I'll get me coat.

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I'm one of those people who thought Lotus pulled the plug on the Esprit too soon, I'm fully aware of possible emmision obsticles etc. I still think the last series of the Esprit were such good cars. On reflection of my posts which did stray a bit off topic what I was really trying to get across was that as many of us know many people are far to sceptical about the Lotus brand i.e. Loads of trouble etc and every time I come across someone of that opinion I always go out of my way to try and get this silly image corrected. Although the saying if you have to explain you missed the point so rightly applies and my point is that the Cayman and Boxster are two very similar cases and I thought that as owners of a Lotus you may just want to be enlightened.

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I should have added that I'd still go Evora for a daily :)

 

Fair enough mate.

:)

 

As the Cayman and Evora are daily choices and it's all about choice, from cars to the jars in the sweetshop!

 

But...

 

Your drive of the Cayman means nothing compared to the 'older' less tech heavy, raw and twitchy 'driver' 911 cars that gave the 911 its name.

 

That would be to say that driving an Evora gives you a good enough impression of what an S1 Elise would be like.

:)

 

 

The Evora and Cayman to me are capable and controlled daily drivers from companies that have a history of making wildly impractical Sportscars.

 

Given the choice of the two, I'd buy a Golf for the jams and S1 Elise for the fun, and have enough money left to pay for 20 years worth of holidays, and a Submariner, and a spare Elise.

:smoke:

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Absolutely right.

 

Go to pistonheads and look at a late '97 Porsche 911 (993) for price (£35k), then look at an early '98 Porsche 911 (996) for price (£10k).

 

You could buy three, maybe four early 1998 cars for the price of one late 1997 car.

 

There are very few used production cars where a jump to the new model means you pay 75% less.

 

The early mass produced water cooled cars are now hitting a value lower than their engine, While the low volume air cooled cars rise and rise...

 

:thumbsup:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=26896

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Yes, but what I meant is they have a new 911, a new boxster, a new cayenne, a new Coxster or revamped versions of them. I know they are a huge company compared to Lotus, but we are always waiting. The exige and elise are revamped occasionally and the Evora is a great car. But Porsche would be thinking about putting it out to grass and introducing a brand new version.

 

There models all seem to have a shorter shelf life. I know people say the 911 is 50 odd years old, but the reality is the new one bears very little to the original. where as the Esprit soldiered on for decades.

 

I cant afford a new one of any make, so not sure why i'm rabbitting on! I'll get me coat.

The reason why Porsche launch a new 911, Boxster and Cayman near together is that they're all based on the same platform and reuse a vast amount of parts.  Not as much visibly as the early 996s and the Boxsters on the the time but a high percentage.  It's just much more economical to get the whole production up to the same models quickly.  

 

My guess is that the engineering / manufacturing departments would want to do it quicker but the marketing folk don't want to confuse the market / minimise the impact of the launches.

 

I have a feeling that Porsche are moving the Boxster & Cayman to the sports car niche (especially occasional use) and moving the 911 more towards a GT car for everyday use.  I don't know what the figures are for the UK but here in Switzerland I seem to remember the 911 outselling the smaller cars by 4+ times.

 

If you're ever near Stuttgart I'd wholeheartedly recommend going to visit the Porsche museum. A fantastic half-day (use the other half for going to the Mercedes museum nearby).

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