free hit
counters
New Cayman out - Page 3 - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Recommended Posts

The most interesting bit of this thread for me has been the discussion about build quality, and the journey Porsche made from unprofitable company building niche cars on a shoestring, to what we see today.

 

We know it's not impossible. We know that well placed investment (which doesn't evaporate 2 years later) allied to a strong plan for profitability and growth can work.

 

With respect, I think 'soul' is something best left to the marketing department or the evangelicals in Diss. You could throw me hours of tapes showing Lotus's heritage and describe in the minutest detail the joy of driving feedback, but unless the company makes enough profit selling cars to people, it's toast! Do you hear that, oh new silent, dear leaders on the other side of the planet?

 

(It just occurs to me that perhaps Satan has possessed me. Perhaps I ought to visit Diss after all and go for my 5 year angelic overhaul)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Looking at Porsche sales it becomes ever more evident that the Cayman is just marketing exercise.

 

I think What Porsche marketing told the designers "Give me a lower priced model that attracts potential buyers who think they can't afford a Porsche to the dealer. Once there we upsell them the  911." The Cayman is so clearly positioned as the poor man's 911 and Porsche takes every effort to make sure that this is common knowledge - especially on brand level.

 

Best indicator: not even the aftermarket tuners touch the Cayman!

 

So why would anyone want one? Or compare his model against one?

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Chris Harris shoots one out...

 

http://youtu.be/wT2wkhg6LTQ

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Colors and spec are upto each persons personal choice : it's good to have a choice

I've driven all of these cars old and new. Depends on what you looking for is what it comes down to and are happy to live with.

If you happy with the pure basics of motoring jumping from a 2-11 into a cayman, or s, or boxster etc or even 997, 996 or 991 they all feel muted and rather dull and the cayman and boxster you have at top speed and feeling slow .... then it's also sensations you experience or are hidden from.

where you live factors in too. A Porsche 997 or 991 is better in continuous winter / snow conditions / mountain areas (think daily snow for a few months and minus 15 average nightly) ... Ok proviso on winter tires etc ... But generally they are far better starting and running .....if ubiquitous again it depends on where you live. Here there are few and during the winter (now) lotus or Porsche is like spotting a migrating bird ... A single lost bird

Lotus could have done with the esprit now

Unfortunately this is the first time in years not having a lotus and having been living in various countries, so some effort, after the 2-11 was eventually written off last week from my December black ice accident. Shame.

Better to have a lotus or a Porsche than some mundane A to B car driver!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the new Cayman both bland and ugly. Some feat!

 

Doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. Then again I've never enjoyed driving 911s either. I think they've sold in spite of the engine placement, not because of it. They were the first (and for many years the only) daily usable fast car. But now you can get many more usable, more practical fast cars and plenty of other more exciting more dramatic sports cars too. And I wouldn't expect any of them to break down either.

 

It won't make any difference however, the journos have always raved about the Cayman but by porsche standards it has always been a total flop. Most prefer a boxster or, if they can afford it, the more iconic 911.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite like the look of the new Cayman.

We tried a 911, Cayman, Boxster and V8V before getting the Evora. The Evora was the best drive but the Cayman was 2nd and I felt far better than the 911. The V8V (tried two, both engines) made the best noise but my Mrs thought it was boring!

That said when I come to change the Evora at the moment it would be a toss up between the V8V and the Cayman.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the thing isn't it you drove the car and liked the Cayman. All too often people dismiss a car because of it's name/image without actually driving it. Since buying my Boxster I have changed so many people's minds by just letting them drive it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree the Boxster is an underrated car. Porsche Buyers look down on it because it's the cheapest, by some way,of their models and unfortunately it's past majority buyers haven't helped. Hairdressers, professional middle aged women etc. Unfortunately it's not even thought of by many serious buyers. Like myself, they gloss over it without even thinking about it.

 

That said, for me, it just doesn't fit the buying criterea. 1. Under 5 secs 0-60 2. No soft tops (yeuk! horrid things) 3. Must look awesome 4. Must make peoples head turn in noise 5. Must be freaky, unusual and charismatic. Don't care about the interior etc.

 

New Caymen was driven recently by yours truely and it is an excellent drivers car. Maybe a little too refined for me, but I just can't get over the looks. It has alot of design cue's from the back of an Audi and, for me, is just plain fugly and uninspiring. If it looked like it drove it would be high on my list.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anything in Chris Harris's video you couldn't do in a Toyota GT-86?

 

Boxster isn't underrated by the market, they sell shed-loads. It's the only compact 6 cylinder convertible apart from the Nissan 370Z and even I would briefly consider a boxster over one of those (before birching myself soundly for such unclean thoughts). It's the Cayman that can't find buyers. Maybe now the 911 has moved up into 'taking the piss' territory in terms of price, more may go for the Cayman who are put off by the boxster hairdresser image.

 

Tell you what though, I can't believe there are people out there who'd spend north of £60k on a 325bhp 1425kg (with PDK) porsche when they could have a 345bhp 1176kg Exige plus change. The Exige might be harder to in and out of but that's a small price to pay for the extra performance, communication and driver involvement. Ok, if you're so old and fat that you can't actually get in an Exige, fair enough, but there's no excuse otherwise. It's also rubbish that the Exige V6 is too extreme for daily use. It's significantly more refined and long-legged than the previous Exige and you get rear visibility now too (actually better than the Evora's). Haven't driven the new Cayman but I'd wager the Lotus's ride is more comfortable. It is very compliant and composed and that does more for comfort than any amount of padding in the seats. You can even get parking sensors and heated seats too!

Edited by The Pits
Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it interesting on Porsche forums when I suggest that someone considers a Lotus it is generally ignored and in most cases I think never even considered. I'm not sure if the old Loads Of Trouble mantle has well and truly stuck I'm not sure, but as a lifelong Lotus man I find it a lost cause, and in many respects this sterotyping is equally prevelant on Lotus sites about Porsche cars if only people would just go and have a drive in either cars they may realise what they have been missing all this time.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

A mate of mine in WA had a Honda S2000 which he then traded up for a Boxster. When he came around to my place once, I had a drive of the Porsche. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Would not bother me to own a porsche at all.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell you what though, I can't believe there are people out there who'd spend north of £60k on a 325bhp 1425kg (with PDK) porsche when they could have a 345bhp 1176kg Exige plus change. The Exige might be harder to in and out of but that's a small price to pay for the extra performance, communication and driver involvement. Ok, if you're so old and fat that you can't actually get in an Exige, fair enough, but there's no excuse otherwise.

I think you will notice that the Cayman is the daily driver for most of its owners - much more so even than the 911. It is made for comfortable driving and even has a trunk big enough to go on vacation. Porsche has managed excellently in bridging the gap, so that the car also has excellent handling characteristics.

 

By comparison the Exige S is a typical second car, made for driving fun but less suited for that dreary rainy Monday morning commute to the office. You'd probably prefer to use your old Micra for that! :excl:

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it interesting on Porsche forums when I suggest that someone considers a Lotus it is generally ignored and in most cases I think never even considered. I'm not sure if the old Loads Of Trouble mantle has well and truly stuck I'm not sure, but as a lifelong Lotus man I find it a lost cause, and in many respects this sterotyping is equally prevelant on Lotus sites about Porsche cars if only people would just go and have a drive in either cars they may realise what they have been missing all this time.  

Lotus is far less of an aspirational brand than Porsche and more an enthusiasts brand,( something DB was keen to address ).  I'd guess a much larger percentage of people that buy Porsche buy for the status and the 'I've arrived' factor as opposed to being one over by the engineering and the heritage, same deal with Ferrari's too. Some serious PR is required there to compete in that market in those sort of numbers but then I doubt DRB have that sort of ambition for Lotus. 

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you will notice that the Cayman is the daily driver for most of its owners - much more so even than the 911. It is made for comfortable driving and even has a trunk big enough to go on vacation. Porsche has managed excellently in bridging the gap, so that the car also has excellent handling characteristics.

 

By comparison the Exige S is a typical second car, made for driving fun but less suited for that dreary rainy Monday morning commute to the office. You'd probably prefer to use your old Micra for that! :excl:

 

So you've heard but what actually is preventing someone from using their Exige S on a dreary Monday?

 

I use my Elise as a daily driver, the only issue is entry and access. However, I personally I don't find my Dad's boxster massively easier to get in and out of.

Lotus is far less of an aspirational brand than Porsche and more an enthusiasts brand,( something DB was keen to address ).  I'd guess a much larger percentage of people that buy Porsche buy for the status and the 'I've arrived' factor as opposed to being one over by the engineering and the heritage, same deal with Ferrari's too. Some serious PR is required there to compete in that market in those sort of numbers but then I doubt DRB have that sort of ambition for Lotus. 

 

I believe this to be the case. Let porsche continue making cars for those seeking status I say and hopefully Lotus will continue to make fewer cars for those who value driving pleasure above all else.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you've heard but what actually is preventing someone from using their Exige S on a dreary Monday?

Well, I could think of a few points

  • As you yourself said getting in & out is a bit difficult. Especially when you'r wearing your winter coat, or  its raining
  • The heating in the Porsche is definitively a notch (more likely 2-3) better.
  • There is a bit more space, you can put that sixpack of water bottles in the trunk

Mind you, I would much prefer the Exige S and could probably live with the compromise. But, then I'm a Lotus addict as most of us on the forum. That may be true for 80% of all Lotus owners, but Porsche is so successful in selling cars to all those potential buyers that are not ondugs as we are. :getmecoat:

 

Actually driving the Exige S on that dreary Monday would likely cost you your teeth! A Lotus puts a big smile on your face every time you get in. Imagine the reaction of your depressed co-workers when they see that smile. You're very likely to get punched in the middle of that smug face by at least one of them! :vava:

Edited by TBD

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So you've heard but what actually is preventing someone from using their Exige S on a dreary Monday?

 

I use my Elise as a daily driver, the only issue is entry and access. However, I personally I don't find my Dad's boxster massively easier to get in and out of.

 

I believe this to be the case. Let porsche continue making cars for those seeking status I say and hopefully Lotus will continue to make fewer cars for those who value driving pleasure above all else.

 

I can not believe you think that the Boxster is not easy to get out of. When I was in the process of buying my Boxster I re-visited the Elise/Exige and again found the massive door cill tiresome and a real negative point, I still get sick when I drive them too but that could just be me.

As far as your statement about those seeking status that may be the case for a few but for driving enthusiasts like myself who have had a Lotus car for nearly 40 years I can assure you the ride in my Boxster is every bit as satisfying if not more in some cases than any Lotus I have owned.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both cars cause me to make that over 40 groan when getting in and out. However it could be due to boredom where the boxster is concerned!

 

Sorry they're just far too sensible for me. The Elise is in another league when it really counts, that's my honest conclusion after many, many miles in both. The Porsche, as always, is the better all-rounder which is of course what most people want. My Dad has a late previous generation Boxster S and it's so aloof I end up thrashing the bejaysus out of it just to get get some feedback from it, even then you feel porsche have saved their best for the 911. Engine feels like it could rev to 9000 (it can) but it's limited to 7400. Ultimately I find the compromise frustrating so and utterly pointless waste of money for me. The Elise might be harder to get in and out of but once you're in, you are at least rewarded with the most exquisite steering of any car I've ever driven. It's a delight to use at 15mph as well as 120mph. Boxster feels half asleep most of the time.

 

Worst car ever for me in that regard was the M5. Absolutely catatonic until 140mph. In fact at the legal limit you'd be better off in a 5 series diesel. Immensely capable and practical. But inert, lifeless and joyless. Elise is almost the exact opposite. Rubbish on the autobahn but totally absorbing everywhere else.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to drive both Elise and Boxster in the past. Boxster was easy to go to work to, wearing a suit, coming to office fresh. Elise you always felt a bit crumpled. Boxster was ex-wifey's and went together with her, Elise was mine and a weekend car only. Upgraded Elise to Evora and that's now having daily driver comfort, I take that car to office, sometimes even clients (as long as I can park around the corner), wouldn't have done this with the Elise. Just my personal decision, others might think differently.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...