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New Cayman out

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Looks like Porsche finally launched the new Cayman: http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/the-2013-porsche-cayman-lands-in-la-2012-11-26. Definitively better looking than the old one, but clearly no match for the Evora.

 

I took the liberty of spec'ing one up on the configurator. Turns out ist about 10.000 € MORE expensive than my fully equipped Evora S. And then its still underpowered (though that PDK gearbox looks good).

 

Message to Hethel: Hike the price and spend 10.000 € per car on inceasing the quality (and the proftability). It great to have such a bargain, but I'd like to make sure Lotus survives. 

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Do you think that sort of price hike could bring it up to Porsche standards

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Not the price hike, but investing that money to bring the Evora up to Porsche standards. Engineering wise I think Lotus is already there, at least 98%. It is mostly sloppy assembly responsible for the gap.

 

Though it is nice that every Lotus has that "individual touch", that individuality should go above and beyond the norm and not be used justify the cars niggles and quality gaps.

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Signed up for the dealer presentation. Really like the sound, the sport exhaust on the S is just mad. SWMBO asked whether that's defect... :)

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Though it is nice that every Lotus has that "individual touch", that individuality should go above and beyond the norm and not be used justify the cars niggles and quality gaps.

 

So far so good with the MY12 Evora, it really is very well put together. Hand build quality will always vary and it's character after all. 

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

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Had a dust up with a Cayman S the other week. Hmmmmm

Let's say Lotus 1 Cayman 0

 

Left him easy up to, ahem, shall we say, v fast. Very fast.

'Nuff said.

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Sorry but it takes more than just money to get to Porsche build quality. It takes time and constant investment (like 50 years of it). Infact I don't know many cars with better build quality than German cars....but they are heavy, boring and not as much fun. (generalisation but it's mostly true).

 

I'll stick to Light, charismatic and exciting if it means a door handle needs tightening now and then :)

 

I spent a day in 2012 ripping every Porker around Silverstone. I did enjoy the 911 GT3RS but I thought it the only one I would buy. However it was more Lotus than Porsche with a stripped interior it rattled and knocked and felt "less sturdy". The Caymen R was fun but had no soul.

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Kimbers,

 

Spot on, 100% agree.

 

Trevor.

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I agree on the "no soul" argument totally -

very funny in this context: some days ago I read a thread (from 2009) in a german porsche forum that an administrator pointed out that the (at that time new) Evora is handbuild and saw that as an advantage! (Me too, but in so many threads, esp. from another place related to Lotus in GB the "handbuild"-thing is judged very negative).

Also you have to keep in mind that before the mid-nineties, beginning of the producing of the Boxster and 996, Porsche had a much more handbuild related production. Then the new new management (with the help of toyota) made the production much more efficient. As a result I knew some Porsche owners, esp. fans of the air cooled era, that are of the opinion that the core quality of the porsches (esp 911) is not as good as in the eighties/beginning of the nineties. Core quality mens the soldity and the (long-performing) quality of the engine, not the door handles etc. In the eighties german car testers always wrote "well, there are a lot of knobs spread all ober the cockpit without logical link, but who cares?" - which says a lot how priorities have changed.

I like to buy a car for the driving experience and the fun to drive - that make m y Life better - not a certain kind of door handle....(btw: the doorhandles in my car are very nice :thumbsup: if someone is interested....)

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You guys have a tainted memory. Porsche was almost dead in the early 90s, build quality wasn't good at all, drive was shit and every 4-pot M3 killed the standard 911. From the they turned the company within 5-10 years. It's not 50 years you need, but a strong team as Porsche had around Wiedeking.

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Exactly, but a sugar daddy named Ferdinand Piech doesn't hur either. In fact, it was the VW development contract for the Tuareg (and the rights to sell the same car as the Cayenne) which saved Porsche from bankruptcy.

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As a Lotus owner for a very long time I don't buy into this 'soul' thing at all. What I do get from my Lotus is a feel for the road which I can assure you my Porsche Boxster has but it just does it in a different way. After driving the Boxster I get in my Esprit and as a collector of pens I describe it this way, after driving the Porsche then the Lotus its like the Porsche is a precision writing instrument and the Lotus is a biro held together with sticky tape. Ultimately they both do what they are supposed to do and that is write. I get in the Esprit and it feels cheap with parts raided from anybodies parts bin (and don't forget that picture of a speedo half cock that GKP posted a while ago) whereas the Porsche feels precision crafted and still looks and operates in that fashion every time without fail of falter. When I first get in the Esprit all the 'jiggling' that I feel through the steering wheel after a few miles and bends all makes sense as feedback of the road surface but the Porsche does exactly the same it may well be the difference between a 2001 car and a 2008 one. As someone in the process of refurbishing my V8 both my mechanic and I look at each other and say why? on several occasions. Don't get me wrong I still love my Lotus but I choose my cars on the way they drive not by some blind passion for something I can't logically relate to perhaps I have no soul.

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There is very little wrong with Porsche sports cars except their ubiquity.

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David, I dread to think how you picked your wife, did you find her in Stepford?! :lol:

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Nowt wrong with that! 

I just hope this mystical 'soul' is not being miss-sold by people being half way there in so far as being arsesouls

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Also you have to keep in mind that before the mid-nineties, beginning of the producing of the Boxster and 996, Porsche had a much more handbuild related production. 

 

Absolutely right.

 

Go to pistonheads and look at a late '97 Porsche 911 (993) for price (£35k), then look at an early '98 Porsche 911 (996) for price (£10k).

 

You could buy three, maybe four early 1998 cars for the price of one late 1997 car.

 

There are very few used production cars where a jump to the new model means you pay 75% less.

 

The early mass produced water cooled cars are now hitting a value lower than their engine, While the low volume air cooled cars rise and rise...

 

I have no real love for any modern Porsche, Lotus or pretty much anything come to that. In fact all the cars I'd like to own have already been built!!!

:)

 

I can vouch for the build of the pre late 90's cars, and having a 19 year old car where everything has a part number and is available still feels weird.

:thumbsup:

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David,

It's nice to hear you appreciate both the Porsche and the Lotus, the mark of a car enthusiast is the ability to appreciate various cars for the strengths they have and what they can do rather than what they and their pitfalls.

Trevor.

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Thank you Trevor,

I consider that if a car also has a bit of quirkiness then thats a bonus but I think when people wax lyrical (perhaps car salsemen) about these things they should go and stand in Pseuds corner.

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And whats wrong with Car Salesmen? :P

 

I am not speaking from a purely passionate point of view. As a Car buyer of over 5000 cars a year we know what to look for in a car and the way it drives, not to mention as a son to an Engineering Father and family. I can appreciate the build of a Porker and like I said above, enjoy the way it drives.

 

From my own perspective I just find the modern Porsche's souless. Don't get me wrong. I have looked at the Cayman as the only one I can actually afford right now, it's a great car to drive and I would use one as a daily drive if I had the money. But I would still go Exige S or Evora S to get my kicks at weekends. When I was blasting it round the track I thought, "this is a nice car, well put together, comfortable, nice gear change".......When I should have been thinking....."Wait, wait wait...break hard hit the apex...omg Arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....thats awesome!"

 

Thats the best way I can describe it :)

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@@@Kimbers

Are you of the opinion that a P Cayman is a better daily driver than an Evora?

I think that when a Cayman fullfills all needs you have in "daily business" there is nothing that an Evora could not do equal or better (main difference from my point of view: rear seats)

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I should have added that I'd still go Evora for a daily :)

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My comments were perhaps better directed at sales or marketing directors where this kind of concept may have legs.

Did you know that Porsche still cover their cars with the full OPC warranty even if you do trackdays? Now there's confidence in your product, I know this for a fact as I've recently bought a car for trackday fun and it's covered.

Oh and I will probably buy an Evora S when they are around the £25-27K price bracket which probably wont be that long.

Edited by B1 RMA

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Porsche's policy is that if it breaks due to track use, it's your shout but if it breaks due to a manufacturing defect, the warranty will cover it*. Same as Lotus in real terms.

 

*From a recent conversation with Tonbridge OPC.

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I should have added that I'd still go Evora for a daily :)

 

:thumbsup: .............that´s what I meant!

 

(And I guess from what I have read / seen in the book / video related to the devopment of the Evora your father could confirm that the usability as a DD was an aim of Lotus.....and: it worked out v e r y well- in my opinion)

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David,

As Bibs says, they allow track use but not breakages due to track use. If perhaps your car had oil starvation then it's very likely not to be covered or anything else for that matter if they can attribute it to the track. Who was it that told you it would be covered, not the salesman :-)
Seriously though Porsche do allow an amount of track use as does Lotus but I would be surprised if the Porsche is as good as the Evora out there.
As for an S getting down to £25-£27k I think you may have a long wait, maybe 2 years or more.

Trevor.

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