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More power and best ways to get it from an Evora NA?


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The dyno shown on my website is from a customer car - Phil *****s. He wanted a garage to fit the 2bular 3-1's + downpipes + Cat and I pointed him to Essex Autosport. I also advised him they would be able to tune the ECU to suit the new install. Phil was delighted to have this work done too.

Luckily a base dyno run was taken and the improvements are shown on the graph. Some input on the tuning was supplied by Simon Hill of Specialist Components, one time employee of Lotus, who worked on all the Toyota-engine ECU's. He said he'd seen a 40bhp gain but dialled it back a bit - I was a trifle upset at that.

Now if Yvo wants to denigrate those results he's calling Essex Auto liars as well as Simon Hill. Phil was charged several hundred pounds for that work and Yvo is saying he was ripped off with a fake graph?

I'm always happy to upset the competition and maybe Yvo is sitting with too many exhausts on the shelf and the depression has got to him. Like most Lotus after-market exhaust suppliers, he doesn't make the exhausts he sells, so he has to order in bulk. 

He's had this forum all to himself and you're still buying 2bular - you ungrateful sods.

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The forum belongs to me, I make up the rules. Back on topic or it gets locked, the people who have contributed to it are getting no value from any of these recent posts. End of story.

Gents, with the greatest of respect I did not re-open this thread to enable any form of a war of words or anything simikar between suppliers. I re-opened it because I, and I suspect many others too, a

Chav.

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Jim, thanks very,much for adding to this topic and for providing some good pointers re actual performance gains to be attained- his is really what I was after.

 

As you'll see from my earlier post I was guessing that with a new exhaust system (headers and sport cat connected to my lotus sports exhaust) I was hoping to see a gain of around 30-35 bhp to take my NA to somewhere around 310bhp. This matches nicely with the 40bhp ("dialled back a bit") quoted from Simon and that is a healthy increase on NA stock with a weight saving too and a lot of heat taken away from the engine bay!  Thanks also for confirming that to really get the performance gains would require an ECU tune, I'm not knowledgeable in these areas but it does make sense to me. Do you know of anyone other than Essex Auto who have done this - I must stress I have nothing against EA, it is just that I live over 500 miles away from them so it's a bit of a hike to go!!!

 

So, an NA Evora with 310bhp, (full exhaust system and ECU tune), then add in a lightened flywheel and it really does seem the way to go for me. Expensive (but cheaper than a S/C upgrade) and should be reliable and with my CR gearbox I bet I would be a gnats arse of an "S" anywhere due to the increase in bhp, the weight loss, and the inertia loss on the flywheel. Or am I talking rollocks?

 

Thanks again for some hard info / confirmations.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I was a bit disappointed (but not too surprised) at the performance figures on the base dyno runs. It's been a while since Toyota produced a performance-oriented motor.

In the Jap tuning world, the "short" primary/long secondary layout is a well-accepted design and it gives very good gains, provided you get the combination of diameters/lengths right!

My initial 3-1 manifold/downpipe design worked okaaaay but those pre-cat manifolds are really bad news, so getting rid of them would always yield improvements. I actually went DOWN on the bore-size of the initial 3-1's to increase gas-speed, added as much length as I could to the primaries and again went DOWN on the bore-size of the secondaries but made them longer and equal-length - result, an extra 20ft/lbs torque. I have a lightweight 3-1 manifold set with matching long downpipes which give seriously good gains over the OEM set-up - as shown by the GENUINE dyno graph. It's £400 less than the heavy Larini design, which wraps the bottom half of the motor in glowing hot pipes. You pays your money .............................

Looking ahead, this is a 3.5Ltr motor, it should easily break 300bhp at the wheels and cam-timing/cam-phasing is the key to unlocking that power.

Now, re-flashing the ECU is all well and good but it can only do so much. What if you had a completely new ECU - not a piggy-back - a replacement for the factory ECU, which plugged straight in, no cutting/soldering. You could install different maps for road/track, still retain traction-control etc  It would adjust for different fuels wherever in the world, something a "dongle" ain't going to do. It's coming.

I'm a very busy man, so I won't be sat here all day like some re-sellers have the time to do but I'll pop in to answer any questions when I get the chance.

You know I'm a custom-build exhaust manufacturer - that's why I can offer different systems to suit different requirements. Different manifolds/different systems for the N/A cars and the Supercharged cars. Carbon tips/Titanium tips, no-one else offers choices like me because they don't MAKE anything. They want a simple life that suits them - not you.

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I think running a totally new ECU is possibly a step too far for me, mainly due to my ignorance and therefore worry about reliability / longevity etc.

 

However, mods as per my previous post are what I am now saving my pennies for, so hopefully you'll be hearing from me in the next few months re an order, and I'll probably have a Lotus Sports (blue tipped) exhaust box in the ads not long after....  :)

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Now if Yvo wants to denigrate those results he's calling Essex Auto liars as well as Simon Hill. Phil was charged several hundred pounds for that work and Yvo is saying he was ripped off with a fake graph?

I'm always happy to upset the competition and maybe Yvo is sitting with too many exhausts on the shelf and the depression has got to him.

 

What a funny way to respond, thanks for even advertising us on your website Jim! Good man!

 

There's only one thing I pointed out about the pre- and after dyno which is something you've countered with names and mud slinging. Sadly no further in depth explanation.

 

When fitting tuned headers, certainly going from a system as present on the V6's you would expect a change in torque delivery i.e the torque will peak in a different way and of course you'd want it to be going up.

 

Looking at the graph presented I wrote "I don't even think the data which is presented for these manifolds is correct as the after install torque graph shown doesn't change."

 

To say this more precise: the data looks the same but only shifted up slightly.

 

Is that what you would expect from any (which means any, not specifically yours) manifold Jim?

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Gents, with the greatest of respect I did not re-open this thread to enable any form of a war of words or anything simikar between suppliers. I re-opened it because I, and I suspect many others too, are keen to understand how to extract more power from the NA Evora safely and reliably. We want to invest our hard earned in our cars and the experience they provide but we want to understand what that investment will deliver.

To this end, can we draw a line and focus on the topic at hand and the provision of sound ideas to achieve that aim, preferably with real life experience and evidence.

Many thanks

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Agreed!

 

I would rather see true and honest comparisons than the usual and sometimes unusual sales blurb.

Even if that would mean one of our suppliers would get fried :)

 

Lets just stick to facts

 

/looking for a thumbs up emoticon but can't find.

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One thumb or two? (Click the scroll arrow on the right to see them all!)

 

:thumbsup: 

:thumbup:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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So any thoughts re my post on best NA Upgrade option and even better any more hard evidence (e.g. dyno runs, people who have done it etc:

 

1. New exhaust (manifold, sport cat, valved back box)

2. ECU tune (anyone other than Essex Auto - again only because of travel distance of 1k miles round trip)

3. Lightened flywheel

 

which all should equal around 310 bhp for the NA and around 15kg (estimate for new exhaust system and loss of cats) in dropped weight and a lot of extra heat removed from the engine bay which should equal improved / the same reliability?

 

By my reckoning that makes the NA a real close match for the S/C Evora even on the track. I guess the total cost will be around the £4.5k - to £5k mark which is still cheaper than the S/C kit (around £6k plus fitting) and quite a bit away from the circa £10k - £14k cost of trading in my NA Evora against a second hand standard Evora S of a similar age and mileage.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I'm just going with the De cat pipe and sports exhaust that all I need if more are buy Evora  400.

in a couple of years .

Good to see all the options  above .

Eddie. 

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To be honest, I don't think you'll gain a lot with just an airfilter or a decat.

 

The OE airfilter might not the best in terms of design but I can't see how you'd squeeze 10+BHP out of that.

The primary cats are quite a large restriction because they're so close to the head which means you end up with a manifold which isn't really that. It's more like a way to get the exhaust fumes to the cat as soon as it's physcially possible to be able to reach another nice EU emission directive.

 

A remap will probably help you further although I've not really got the feeling the ECU is out of it's original calibration range. However, changing the fueling will probably give you some gain.

 

Anything else is going to be S/C or Turbo. Turbo isn't a great option because of the heat issues which come with them.

I'm not sure if I want to go the S/C route. May be Rotrex, but I am not sure if I would really want an S/C Lotus. I kind of like NA :)

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I'll be honest - having lived with a 2bular backbox and decat, I can definitely tell you that even by itself there are gains to be had. If you went full 2bular downpipes, cat and backbox, you'd be going a fair old way to full gains. Then throw on a radium/boe intake with a custom map on the ECU and you'll be at the peak of 'worthwhile' modifications. Any further modification and you'd might as well just get an Evora S.

 

On that note, i'd definitely give a big shout out for Jim's exhausts if folk's are looking for them. I've had a fair number of exhaust brands in my time (obviously wont namedrop specfics, but one was a larini), and by far Jim's are the best quality and service i've had.  :thumbsup:  The larini sounded ok - but uncivilised, dull and basic. Jim's sound deep, with no drone and no hassles. And the valved exhaust he now does for the Evora is gorgeous with the ability to remove the bass completely and turn it back into OEM with a bit more spice  :happy dance:. The sound from the NA valved exhaust is absolutely fantastic - my only worry is wearing out the buttons on the remote :D

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Hi all,

 

 

Personally I wouldn't spend £5K for a 30BHP increase, so I've opted for K&N panel filter, decat and sports exhaust. I am convinced there are very noticeable power gains from having done this. I recently took Alan Miles who owns an IPS supercharged Evora out in my car when he came up to see me. He said that my car felt no slower than his or at least he couldn't notice much difference.

I used to have access to a rolling road where I used to get my Esprit dyno'd but they have dismantled it now. I will try and make some calls and see if I can get my car booked on a rolling to road to record the actual power increase. As soon as I get some results I will post up on this thread.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

David

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Tom and Dave, thanks for the feedback. Tom, the research I've done to date is certainly pushing me directly to Jim and his 2bular exhausts. Have not found a single bad word anywhere, only praise for the product and the service, which is reassuring to say the least.

 

Dave - it's not just the extra power, though to be honest an extra 30 bhp on my NA would just make it a simply brilliant car and without the risk of any "serious" engine modifications and the resulting potential problems.  If I could get 40-45bhp for that price with a full ECU re-tune, and keep the safety margins then the car would be truly epic and still several thousand cheaper than "upgrading" for an S and can you imagine the sound it would make?

 

I'm just not sure about the CAI.

If / when I get it done, I will ensure to get before and after dyno runs, again, hard evidence is what we need.

Thanks all. And remember, if you come across any other approaches / kit / upgrades can we post them on here to keep all the information in one place. Certainly will help in the future and with searches.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Hi all,

 

Personally I wouldn't spend £5K for a 30BHP increase, so I've opted for K&N panel filter, decat and sports exhaust. I am convinced there are very noticeable power gains from having done this. I recently took Alan Miles who owns an IPS supercharged Evora out in my car when he came up to see me. He said that my car felt no slower than his or at least he couldn't notice much difference.

I used to have access to a rolling road where I used to get my Esprit dyno'd but they have dismantled it now. I will try and make some calls and see if I can get my car booked on a rolling to road to record the actual power increase. As soon as I get some results I will post up on this thread.

okaaaay, so I guess your favourite exhaust fabricator doesn't want to go to the trouble of making a manifold/downpipe set? You don't "get" the valved exhaust either. I don't expect to hear from you any time soon.

 

With the 2bular set-up, It's a 40bhp gain, over 15% - which is as expected tbh. The Toyota OEM manifolds on all the Lotus installs are a disaster performance-wise. Good news for me though!  

 

The graph is "hard evidence" IMO and anyone following the same upgrade path as Phil will achieve the same results.

 

Mr Elise-Shop can trash all he likes - I was advised never to trash a competitor's products, it makes you look desperate. I would say he's looking desperate - he's now promising to post "genuine" dyno graphs for his V6 manifolds/downpipes but he's been on the market for over a year with them and ...............................

 

More benefits? The removal of a worrying heat-source right behind your seat and the vast improvement in throttle response are all welcome as is the seriously addictive scream (and it is a SCREAM) from the exhaust note.

 

Those OEM manifolds with their ceramic catalysers are a disaster for breathing/performance but Lotus are stuck with them. I wonder how much stress they can take? We've already seen Ferrari's ceramic pre-cats disintegrating ...........................

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okaaaay, so I guess your favourite exhaust fabricator doesn't want to go to the trouble of making a manifold/downpipe set? You don't "get" the valved exhaust either. I don't expect to hear from you any time soon.

 

:huh:

 

But he just said that he's going to buy one of your systems and how good they are?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Makes more sense! I'll add it in :)

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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I was just saying the path I have planned to choose and it's only cost me a few hundred quid so far.

As for the manufacturer who made it for me, they are not a small back street fabricator, they are a large UK manufacturer.

They have jigged it up to make for open market, they just haven't got round to marketing it yet as they have far more other important and profitable products they sell. They sell thousands of other marques of car exhausts for themselves and other exhaust suppliers.

I have chosen the route of a non valved system purely for simplicity and it suits my needs better. No complication of the valve or button not working.

As for manifolds, the only reason why they haven't done this yet is because I haven't wanted one nor asked them to make one.

 

If I want more power then I will simply buy an S and at least then it's has a better resale value than ploughing all that cash on upgrading an NA that will never be 350BHP.

Besides, I still have my faster Esprit in the garage should I want more fun!

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I'm a micro-business yes - you can sneer at this "back street fabricator" who has a range of Lotus Elise/Exige/Evora exhausts your "large UK manufacturer" will NEVER have.

 

There's nothing I like better than embarrassing these "large UK manufacturers" because quite honestly - they haven't got a clue when it comes to the Elise/Exige/Evora platforms - not a clue. If they have "far more important and profitable products to sell" - then they've failed already.

 

I came into the Lotus market because certain "large UK manufacturers" couldn't design an exhaust for the Toyota-engine Elise which didn't dronnnnnnne  - come to think of it, they STILL can't design one!

 

I would imagine your "large UK manufacturer" looks on you as a royal PITA tbh.

 

I caught your post about your wonderful 5"dia system - and if they were hoping you would be their placeman and sell a few - bet they're glad they didn't hold their breath.

 

"As for manifolds" - they haven't done this yet because I haven't wanted one" - you think they're going to go to the trouble of removing the OEM manifolds/downpipes and R&D their own designs just for little old you?! Dream on mate. You need to check the Lotus sales figures of N/A Evoras. Production will cease on that model shortly.

 

Your "large UK manufacturer" is no competition for me. My Evora N/A valved system with its electronic valve control kit costs 824 :00GBP + Vat. If they can beat that - bring it on. I have a non-valved Evora N/A system for the trackday owners - 582 :00GBP + Vat. Plus Carbon and Titanium tip options. "large UK manufacturers" don't do that sort of thing - only us back street guys.

 

Elise-shop sells their Larini valved equivalent (with twin tailpipes + electronic kit) at 1185 :33GBP + Vat. If they can beat that ......................... oh hang on, I can beat that! :harhar:

 

Enjoy your Esprit - maybe I'll look at making a proper exhaust for it.

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As on onlooker - the prices of the exhausts are a lot if it's just cos.

but if you need an exhaust - then frankly - those prices are more than reasonable. And you get a power increase as well.

Backstreet - that's a term I've never liked - it's what folks tarnish specialist local tradesmen who tickle on by working their magic.

As soon as these companies go large - they then always loose the backstreet specialisms - and churn out rubbish that's often rebadged bought in rubbish.

Oh - and these 2bular look and sound bloody ace....... The missus would moan almost as load if I splashed out on one

Jim - keep working your magic in the niche you have well deservedly carved yourself.

Only here once

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Hi Jim,

 

 

I think you are getting your knicker's in a twist or getting the wrong end of the stick. I don't give a monkeys about who is a large or small exhaust company, I could not care less . I was simply stating that I would not spend £3-5K on some of the upgrades other people have mentioned. I've never once mentioned any of your products or compared them or given any opinion.

 

As for the 5" system you refer to on my thread, it was redeveloped just like you have redeveloped yours. It's now a 6" system, you need to read the full thread properly. The only reason why they haven't marketed anything yet is because I haven't taken my car back, through no fault of theirs.

As for you imagining that they look at me as a PITA, imagine no further. I know both owners as friends and I regularly develop and test out other products such as sports cats, sports exhausts, diesel remapping.

When they do bring out their NA sports exhaust, it will retail for a lot less than current markets. They can change their tips to suit customer too!

 

As for my Esprit, I have a perfectly great exhaust system thanks!

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I found this.....whilst surfing......

this should sort your desire for more power.....

 

Evora Cup Engine - Cosworth

 

£15,000.00 GBP

 
1774022.jpg4567137.jpg3811727.jpg6263967.jpg4533256.jpg8071182.jpg1165257.jpg5221671.jpg9172595.jpg6818559.jpg7086015.jpg

 

 

description

 

Brand new on a pallet, this Toyota V6 based engine has been built by Cosworth. Normally aspirated and producing 400 bhp, it is being sold with all ancillaries fitted as shown in the photos.

The prices displayed do not include VAT All prices include shipping within the Mainland UK.

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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