E10 (10% Ethanol) Fuel - BEWARE of E15 PETROL!

[internets 447]

Scaremongering or a longer term issue?

http://pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24900

[jonwat 252]

Owners of some older vehicles will need to be on the look-out for changes at petrol pumps next year as fuels with a greater mix of ethanol will start to become available which could harm older engines.

PistonHeads article on increasing amounts of ethanol in petrol.

[andydclements 485 2 Vehicles]

Is this already common place in some non-European countries anyway?

[MPx 210 1 Vehicles]

To save repateing some typing....we've already had a bit of discussion on this here http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/41529-is-it-possible-to-use-e10-fuel-in-the-esprit/page__p__355116__hl__ethanol__fromsearch__1#entry355116

Dont think there's much new around other than the Federation of Historic Motor Vehicle Clubs is now in less of a panic over it and is saying that it thinks some of the additives work for some of the risks, and changing some components will deal with the rest.

[Paul C 15 1 Vehicles]

To save repateing some typing....we've already had a bit of discussion on this here http://www.thelotusf...__1#entry355116

All that is in Esprit chat, the pistonheads article goes way beyond that, did you read this bit:

"While many brands, BMW among them, have declared their entire petrol engine ranges fine for E10 there are some exceptions, including 993 (and earlier) Porsche 911s. First generation FSI engines used in VW, Audi, SEAT and Skodas typically between 2000 and 2006 are not E10 compatible but all the group's current petrol engines are."

The Esprit had a build total of about 11,000 cars, so no legislation is ever going to car about that. And the hundreds of thousands air cooled Porsche cars are not safe either.

I say just enjoy your cars while you can guys, when the petrol runs out and we are all forced to drive electric bio stuff, at least i can say I got to own a few excellent Lotus's and that I enjoyed a 3.6 litre air cooled 911 while the more retarded simply scoffed 'beetle' and never did.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Paul C

[Bibs 8,879 4 Vehicles]

Whatev.

[Paul C 15 1 Vehicles]

Leyland free motoring...

[Guest surferphil]

My friend had a beetle and it was horrid, I never understood the appeal.

[ramjet 940]

What about lawnmowers, stationary generators, air blowers. This isn't just cars.

I am wondering about whether I keep my esprit and go through what is required to E10ise it or get rid of it to some unsuspecting person.

I do know that Shell in Australia will not be selling E10 for a fair while. They did have it at stations, but the interest was not there so they have scrapped it. If it's legislated in, who knows.

[basalte 108]

A recent tip I received-never buy your petrol from supermarkets. (They were right, it kept pouring out of the trolley for a start...)

[Roger 912 31 1 Vehicles]

I would love someone to explain to me.

When there was the Suez crisis, Sugar Cane farmers in Zululand modified their sugar mills into the production of a petrol replacement that they called Union Spirit. I have a feeling that this was mixed with the junk petrol available in those days, but it was being sold at less than half the cost of petrol. The Government allowed this until the Suez crisis was over and the Government then BANNED the production and sale of Union Spirit.

One, this shows that all Governments are controlled by the petrol companies and

Two, that old cars used to run on this product.

I think I must go and Google Union Spirit.

Just did and Union Spirit was from the 1940's and the later Suez Crisis, but it was 100 octane and was sought after by the owners of race cars and sports cars due to the regular petrol sold at the pumps being 87 octane.

Why cannot this product be used in modern cars?

Edited December 22, 2011 by Roger 912

[rogerch 63 3 Vehicles]

http://www.caltex.com.au/ProductsAndServices/Pages/VortexPremiumFuels.aspx

I use Caltex Vortex 98 almost exclusively, there are a couple of other 98 octane around but Caltex seems to suite best, and no plans to dump it in foreseeable future.

[jonwat 252]

Table listing E10 compatibility, for Lotus, pre 2004 is a no but doesn't say what needs changing.

[oneshot 123 1 Vehicles]

Err

It says V8 (1998-2004) is OK.

[Guest surferphil]

That's it then: Sell the S1 the two Elans and the GTi and buy a V8

Although the Proton GTi is all right.

[jonwat 252]

It says V8 (1998-2004) is OK.

Sorry my mistake, I meant pre '98

[amoss 32]

E10 (10% Ethanol) fuel is about to arrive across Europe (by EU edict).

Angus at the LotusExcel,net forum has asked the question of Lotus Cars about suitability of this fuel in 900-series engines.

Neil Turner at Lotus has replied:

Dear Mr Marshall,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Unfortunately, when the 900-series Lotus engines were developed, they were not designed (nor was the fuel system) for E10 fuel. Unfortunately, the short answer is that we would advise against using E10 fuel on our 900-series engined (or Rover engined) products, as it may cause damage to the fuel system and/or engine and cause driveability issues.

I am sorry if this is not the answer you had wished for, but thank you for contacting us.

Yours sincerely,

Neil E. S. Turner

Customer Services, Warranty

& Technical Manager

LOTUS CARS LIMITED

----------------------------------------------------------------

This has implications for all Esprit, Elite/Eclat/Excel cars and Rover engined Elise/Exige cars, and I assume anything older.

Research is continuing.

Edited February 29, 2012 by ramjet
Topics merged

[gtookey 73 1 Vehicles]

There are some fuel additives available here in the States that are meant to counteract the negativity of E10. They maybe available in the UK too.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=335&catid=8&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Safeguard%26%238482%3B%20Ethanol%20Fuel%20Conditioner%20with%20Stabilizers

[red vtec 76 1 Vehicles]

I had a look on the web and it said they have been running it in the states for sometime and it has not been a an issue. And even over here the mixes have changed at the pump. I can understand Lotus having to say there may be issues to cover themselves.

People said the additives are snake oil.

[Vulcan Grey 235 1 Vehicles]

We have had E10 here at almost all pumps for over 10 years... my lotus has been fine on it... no issues caused by the E10, just the normal esprit issues.

[s2mikey 1 1 Vehicles]

Hmmm - my '87 HC has 54K on it, about 13K of that being mine and Ive never experienced any fuel issues or detonation problems. I use Lucas Fuel additive/upper cylinder lubricant every other tank or whatever so that might help. I know my PO used that for years so thats I use it now. Otherwise, I just get 93/94 octane at the usual places. Im going to assume that if the car runs good and makes good power then the gas cant be hurting anything. Now, if the additive is compensating for any fuel issues or if its truly not an issue cant really be proven that easily.

Guess I'll just keep driving.....?????

[[email protected] 0]

Biggest problem from alcohol is that it melts anything plastic in the fuel system/path. Get rid of the plastic bits, and the fuel system should be ok. However, I doubt the low percentage mixes of alchohol and gas has as much of an effect as straight alcohol. With straight alkey, plastic is a big no no.

Brian

[Drawfiler 10]

Can someone please tell me what the biofuel actually does to the engine and fuel system. As I understand it was are talking about alcohol which on its own will not dissolve the metals used in our cars, or will it? On combustion it may form nasty by-products that could have problems associated with them. so can I have a laymans guide to what the actual problem is.

Peter

[red vtec 76 1 Vehicles]

Peter,

From what I understand it damages the plastic/ rubber parts of the fuel system.

Chris

[cjtpb13 11 1 Vehicles]

Having been forced to use fuel with 10% ethanol for at least the last decade or so I would not worry too much. I have 319,000 on my one vehicle ( the Sparky and Chris(t) taxicab ) and in 8 years of its life it has had 10% ethanol for half of its life. No major issues of any kind with any of the fuel systems.

The Lotus has had about 40,000 miles of running with 10% ethanol. NO major issues with any of the fuel system. I had noticed that the vapor canister clear tubing has begun to deteriorate. However I feel this is more a 16 year old item in a very warm engine bay issue.

The one downside of the fuel is the lower fuel economy. If you ask Sparky or Internets why that is of concern with my one truck they will gladly tell you.