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Referendum - How would you vote? Poll


Kimbers

  

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So Mr Cameron has finally agreed to give us what we want and let us vote  a straight in/out of the EU.

 

But lets have a show of hands. If there was a referendum now how would you vote?

 

Thought it would also be interesting to see how non British residents would vote in comparison!

 

IMPORTANT: So we can compare our British Residents opinion to our Euro members opinion, non Brits please use the poll choice Marked "Non British Resident"

 

I know this has been done before a few years ago but this is especially pertinent after todays speech!

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Actually he's promised, ( very different from 'given' ) what you want.... NOT what everyone wants.  

 

So we're in for five years of destabilisation for business and a whole heap of political posturing, that should take everyone's eyes off the mess the scumbag's making of the country. Whatever the outcome this place is  :censored:

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Since it's odds on that the EU will swallow itself up its own a hole well before 2020, it's pretty much immaterial.

The EU holds the current record for the worlds largest bureaucracy. It's a self serving self full fulling irrelevance, doomed to follow Andy Warhol down the toilet.

Life is like a sewer, what you get out of it, depends on what you put into it. (Tom Leahrer)

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EU needs to change, do they still decant to Strassberg every month?

I do think we ate probably better off in than out though, part of the issue is we do everything they tell us while France etc seem to select what they want to follow.

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Wow, it's nearly 50/50. Interesting. I thought the No's would be higher.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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The European Union was created because of the second world war in an attempt to prevent a recurrence of such a conflict.

 

The cost of the Union is considerably less than the cost of war.

 

Sadly, that genesis is frequently overlooked by those who have ignored history - and so run the risk of repeating past mistakes.

 

As a small example: my mother-in-law was in the Hitler youth (OK, that could be a gag, but it is true), my late father was in Bomber Command (he flew 31 missions from September 1944 to April 1945) and my daughter-in-law is Estonian Russian.  The three major warring factions of 1939-1945 are reunited in my family.

 

Moreover, I suspect that many members of this forum have similar connections, have either lived and worked abroad (perhaps still do) or have relatives who do so, or are those who have come to live and work in this country.

 

Remember also, Lotus is foreign owned.

 

European and political and economic union protects us.

 

Patriotism and hence pride in one's origins is a positive feature.  History repeatedly tells us the Nationalism and jingoism are not.

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Mr. Winter....very well said. To quote Winston Spencer Churchill..."Jaw jaw is better than war war."

 

The European Union - which started life as the European Coal and Steel Community in 1951, then became the European Economic Community and later the European Union - has managed to keep the spectre of trans European warfare at bay for more than 60 years. I hope it continues to do so...none of us need to see tanks rolling across the old battlefields again. The current crop of financial disasters will have to be resolved amicably.....sadly, there is a possibility that it could all go to hell in a handcart and, people having forgotten just what the last effort was like, there could be another spasm of military unpleasantness. In which case, "Great" Britain could now do nothing much to resist......

 

So the EU still looks like a good thing to me, thanks.

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Thank you John.

 

Strictly speaking I'm Professor, Dr Dr (yes two Drs) - but I won't dwell on that.

 

:geek:

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The European Union was created because of the second world war in an attempt to prevent a recurrence of such a conflict.

 

 

Sadly, that genesis is frequently overlooked by those who have ignored history - and so run the risk of repeating past mistakes.

 

 

Patriotism and hence pride in one's origins is a positive feature.  History repeatedly tells us the Nationalism and jingoism are not.

Indeed...these are worrying times, I'd hate to say it we run the risk of history repeating itself and familiar patterns  are emerging. The global economy is in a state of decay and so far we're making do with sticking plasters instead of real progress. Greece is on it's knees and the right wing in emergence, Italy and Spain aren't far behind and there are very close to home. Political parties are casting around for someone to blame, immigration seems a popular choice amongst the more right wing parties and nationlism is on the rise here as well as across Europe. Meanwhile If Britain seriously wants to isolate itself then leaving Europe would be a great start, Little Britain here we come. 

Edited by Stirling_Villeneuve

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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The PIGS are only on there knees due to the fact they were admitted by Politicians wanting to, they should never have been admitted the figures were ignored just to satisfy a political will, rather than admitting they were not in a position to be included.

 

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism and pride in ones country, there are problems with extreme Nationalism to either the Right or Left. The current situation is an incubator for right wing to strengthen, which is worrying. And unchecked immigration only stokes the fire. But if you say so, your a racist!

 

Regards family connections, people intermarried long before the EU was formed. The EU to the man in street is little more than a self serving organization, that appears to dictate the mass via the will of the minority. It may have started as a great ideal, but like many such things it has been abused by those at the top. Does the man on the street actually understand what the EU and MEP's actually do? I don't

 

Personally I think the lack of war in Europe over the last 60 years had more to do with the cold war, the western allies all had a common perceived enemy. that spectra has now disappeared (supposedly) But we still had the Balkans etc. I'm more worried about Turkey and if it goes extremist.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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This section is called 'general chat' for a reason.

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Martin, it's a community of car enthusiasts but we talk about everything in this section from Jokes to politics. Anything that people want to discuss :)

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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The PIGS are only on there knees due to the fact they were admitted by Politicians wanting to, they should never have been admitted the figures were ignored just to satisfy a political will, rather than admitting they were not in a position to be included.

 

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism and pride in ones country, there are problems with extreme Nationalism to either the Right or Left. The current situation is an incubator for right wing to strengthen, which is worrying. And unchecked immigration only stokes the fire. But if you say so, your a racist!

 

Regards family connections, people intermarried long before the EU was formed. The EU to the man in street is little more than a self serving organization, that appears to dictate the mass via the will of the minority. It may have started as a great ideal, but like many such things it has been abused by those at the top. Does the man on the street actually understand what the EU and MEP's actually do? I don't

 

Personally I think the lack of war in Europe over the last 60 years had more to do with the cold war, the western allies all had a common perceived enemy. that spectra has now disappeared (supposedly) But we still had the Balkans etc. I'm more worried about Turkey and if it goes extremist.

There's a huge difference between Nationalism, generally thought to have been the driving force behind World Wars 1 & 2 and  a key component in Facist ideology. Nothing wrong with being 'Patriotic' though...

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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I understand that but it's the extreme views either to the Right or Left that are the issues, the same with anything politics, religion etc etc.

 

I am referring to civic not authoritarian nationalism, but you are correct patriotism is what I should have refereed too.

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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Yeah I figure that... worrying times though. One of my kids has been studying the depression and then onto the rise of national socialism in Germany, scary how the political landscape changed in the period of  a few years.

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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I voted leave because as far as I can recall we have always argued for and been given (up to a point) a rebate of some sort because everyone agrees (again up to a point) that the way it works means that we put in more than we get out. Obviously if we left, we'd stop putting in more than we get out and that must be a plus for the UK. The big fear of course is that leaving would mean that the Euro bloc would no longer trade with the UK or if they did then on punative terms. I'm sure there would be examples at the margin where this may be so. But its hard to believe that our neighbours would simply no longer trade with us because we were not in the EU. The UK is significantly a service economy now (similar to Switz?) and it doesn't seem to be impossible for the Swiss to do very nicely within Europe but not the EU. FWIW I would actually be much happier to be in if the EU programme of integration was up front, planned and understood to be on a definite course to become a united states of europe as a single national entity. I dont fear the Borg! The problem with that would be getting rid of all of this nonesense about national identity and patriotism. Being a European and have that as the first answer that comes to mind when faced with the "nationality?" question. That's more than a few generations away! We're all human so where we live doesn't actually matter even slightly - but for reasons I will never understand the best we aim for is tolerance of each other, and still cherish our differences. Whatever for? Rubbing noses in it is unlikely to ever lead to harmony. France is classicly awful in this regard but the UK is worse. We cant even assimilate four regions into a single entity without constantly celebrating our differences and goading for independence whether beneficial or not.

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People seem to be concerned with how much money goes from the UK to the EU but not how much comes back, nor how much of the difference is consumed in administering the EU where that is done by member states.

Another argument rolled out is the one of the EU over-ruling the UK government on some laws, well that's not a bad thing, have people not heard the phrase "who watches the watchers" or in this case who governs the government. There are various pieces of legislation in the UK only because there was an EU Directive for member states to implement such things, safety and health, financial services, food hygiene have all been improved as a result of the UK government having no choice but implement laws, if there are some EU directives we see as being stupid or ridiculous red-tape then that's the fault of our representatives in the EU for not crafting the directives to be sensible and necessary, don't blame some ethereal EU body for them, blame the MEPs, the people in the UK that either voted for the MEP that's ineffective or even more those that didn't vote at all as they don't see any value in MEPs.

 

 

That aside, there is for me the old adage that it's bigger than the sum of the parts, if we were not in the EU then we'd have far more barriers to export and general trade with other companies in other parts of the EU and the member states would have little to no influence on the global situation, by joining forces (not armed forces) we at least have a say in some global aspects, else we'd each be inconsequential countries with no voice let alone no control.

 

 

 

Slightly off-topic but akin to it.

I'm not a great fan of Scotland splitting out of the UK but if that's what happens then there is a simple cause for it, the UK government acted as though it was supposed to act for the good of England so I can understand why so many Scottish people would want to split, but again I think the UK has more influence than the constituent parts have separately.

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Thank you John.

 

Strictly speaking I'm Professor, Dr Dr (yes two Drs) - but I won't dwell on that.

 

:geek:

AHA!! A bit of Googling and I think things are clearer....

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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There's only leave or stay as an option, no we should stay or no we should go?

The question is "Do you want to stay in, or leave the EU?"

 

Leave is we should go. Stay is Carry on letting them rip us off and tell us what to do (I may have shown my hand there :) )

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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You mean Leave, isolate ourselves from the worlds biggest trading community and beg for scraps and favours from China and India or.... Stay, face the fact we no longer have an empire and play a responsible, valuable and even influential role alongside our European partners and neighbours.

Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... B-)

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Don't see the USA struggling with exports?

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

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