Ex-Apple Director Promises Detroit-Built Electric Sports Car (Elise)

[Bibs]

But quicker, and with gears?

[chandrew]

Do we need it to be quicker and have gears? I'm not sure how this moves the world on.  If I was looking for this type of car I think I'd be more tempted with a Tesla as it seems like the firm has a very good chance of being here in a few years time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm as glad as anyone that Lotus is getting more work but think it would have been better done as an electric Evora.

[Bibs]

That would be up to Detroit Electric, it's there car and you can't buy a Tesla any more, certainly not the Roadster anyway.

[DarrylV8]

Write up in todays Metro

[NedaSay]

But quicker, and with gears?

 

 

Uh I don't get the gear things, technically, this car has a regular Elise gearbox with 6th disconnected and 5th locked but unlockable at customer's request! I always thought that gears allowed to get better torque to the ground and had very little to do with top speed, both Corvettes and Porsches used to reach top speed in 5th and 6th was there to reduce rpm... Besides, it's an electric engine so there's no ratio to deal with, this car could work with a CVT as in pure logic it should have crazy stupid torque all the time... I just don't get it.

 

Andrew there's a very interesting piece on skiddmark.com about Infinity coming soon with a new halo car. It could be that the Infinity Emerge could come to market. 

Edited April 6, 2013 by NedaSay

[Günter]

Nico -most electric motors have the torque-peak from startup (low rpm) ..that is where those 0-60mph times come and why those cars performe notable different to internal combustion engine powered cars on the quartermile. But the torque goes down on higher rpm..

 

A more importand point for construction and materials used in the motor is:

..for more rpm on the wheels of a EV application (as if you want to run faster with your car on the road)

-you need precice fabricated motors who are as light as possible, as you also have to calculate the *g-load there on all rotating parts internally, so if you have a EV-drive motor with rotating internals of lets say 2.5kg static mass and you go from 100rpm up the way to 5.000  this would mean of course notable loads there in the spinning structure itself on a big EV drive motor 

(several 10k of rpm for a electric motor is possible, as for example on small toy cars ..but as said, there the mass of the components is low)

 

..so to use this early Nm point on the torque-curve there, but run the car in a specified speed you can add a gearing matched for the application aims of your road speed range to this motor. Otherwise you would need hughe wheels on the car ..right !? 

 

 

 

Same problem is there on a internal combustion engine, but in opposite orientation  ..as most of the the torque is not there on startup, so you need a matched gearing setup to move the vehicle from start up, and change gears one after the other  -to be within the *load point* of the combustion motor as close to the drive-force curve as possible.

 

*Hybrids for example -with a small 'range extender' combustion engine that is not coupled to the mechanical drive shafts can be effective, as every conventional combustion engine only has a small point of highest efficency -and you simply let the combustion engine run onthis rpm-point all the time now, to drive a generator system that charges the battery backup if it needs..

Combustion engines in a conventional mechanical 'direct drive' on the other hand, as on traditional cars -those run in various load points all the time of use, especialy if the gearing is not perfect (that is why for example those modern electronically controled gearboxes have such a high number of gears, simply to let the combustion motor run in a smaller rpm band  -close to its most efficient point.)

Edited April 6, 2013 by Günter

[ramjet]

I, too, hope this leads to the Elise getting smart airbags and reappearing on the American market.

 

 

I can't see how it would?

 

I thought that as well Trevor. Simple swap of technology. Lotus provides rolling chassis to these guys who obviously must have a smart airbag system? No?

Lotus gets access to a smart airbag system.

 

Everybody wins.

[Bibs]

Lotus could buy a smart airbag system whenever they like, it's not secret technology, just a hugely simple detector that knows that the belt is plugged in and a slightly more complex airbag ECU that can fire the airbag in 2 different ways, nothing special.

What the issue is, is the rehomologating the car which would cost £4m through crash testing etc.

[ramjet]

Ok. Fair enough, but surely the elise, exige and variants have passed US crash testing before? If the airbag is added and the system is one already used in the US, doesn't that suffice?

 

Or am I way too simple in my thought process?

[Bibs]

Read this article I wrote about it...

 

http://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/evora-gets-12-more-months-to-comply-with-us-advanced-airbag-requirements/

[DAV1D]

The SP:01 isn't a pretty car but it looks better in orange than in the blue press pics. Much better looking than the Tesla.

 

One thing I've often wondered is why Lotus don't do their own E-Elise. They did most of the work for Tesla so they know what they are doing. Obviously money would be a factor but surely it can't be too hard to 'throw one together' now they have the experience. 

[fmxa]

Probably a non-compete clause with Tesla or the fact they don't have two beans to rub together right now.  I saw the Electric Dodge Europa a few years back, great looking car and the factory guy driving said it was hoped to be about the $50K mark if produced (which didn't happen).  Honestly, I just don't see the market for another > $100K Lotus styled/look electric vehicle

[ramjet]

Read this article I wrote about it...

 

http://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/evora-gets-12-more-months-to-comply-with-us-advanced-airbag-requirements/

 

Fair enough. Didn't absorb it all the first time.

[chandrew]

That would be up to Detroit Electric, it's there car and you can't buy a Tesla any more, certainly not the Roadster anyway.

 

I'm not sure that's entirely right.  Last time I had a chat to the folk in my local Tesla centre they still had a few left in the european distribution network.

 

If you look at a Model S it feels a big step forward from where the Roadster was.  Maybe this one will feel a big step on from the Roadster but I'm not holding hope.  

 

If you look at the markets like here in Switzerland which have been big buyers of Teslas they all have relatively low speed limits on country roads (here 80kmh, NL 80kmh etc) For the type of roads we drive on it's acceleration not top speed which counts.

[alan]

For the type of roads we drive on it's acceleration not top speed which counts.

 

That to me is the main point / advantage to electric sports cars, forget being green its that they are more fun to drive.  

 

My Esprit has a much higher top speed than the Tesla Roadster but its very rare I drive >125mph.  

 

On the other hand Tesla has better acceleration than the S4s but its not just the difference on paper (3.7 vs 4.7) its how much more use you can make of the acceleration.  You dont need to rev up / slip the clutch / make lots of noise in an electric sports car so you use full acceleration away from every junction / light etc.

 

Its rare that you can use a high top speed but you can use fast acceleration all the time - its fun and legal!

 

I dont think the SP01 is a step forward from the Roadster, at the moment the only electric sports car that seems to out perform the Roadster is the Rimac Concept One  -1088hp / 1600 nm and 0 to 60 in 2.8!  Unfortunately the price is somewhat higher as well

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/concept_one/specifications-10

[DarrylV8]

the Tesla UK website indicates the Roadster is still available at just under £88K

[Bibs]

They don't build them any more, last 'Gliders' were made in Hethel in Jan 2012.

[alan]

the Tesla UK website indicates the Roadster is still available at just under £88K

 

They have one RHD left (not Sport) at 93K.  The last RHD sport was sold for £111K a few weeks ago.

 

I think 88K is the "base price" without any options (seats, wheels, windscreen etc)

[Günter]

you can use fast acceleration all the time - its fun and legal!

 

not exactly so, as for example in German drivers guide/ road-advice there is a § pointing on 'drag race starts' and rubbish behaviour on traffic lights or road entrys 

 

..an EV is even more at risk here, as how do I tell the police oficer "no, I dont wanted to make the tires squeal -it just happens there automatically" 

[chandrew]

Günter,

 

I guess in Germany you'd be OK if it was something like the Merc SLS electric drive - is it just the German press who are suspicious of any non-German car?

[alan]

In the UK you might get into trouble pulling away from the lights if you smoked the tires or slid around trying to get traction.  In the Tesla though  there is no noise & no smoke you just put your foot down and pull away in a dead straight line.  Thats why you can do it all the time, its difficult to see what the police have to complain about?  (OK you have to be careful say at a roundabout as someone not paying attention might think they have time to pull out in front of you).

 

I think the reason traction is better is better is that the electronics can instantly control the power and torque.  In a normal car traction control has quite a lag - when wheelspin is detected you have to start cutting fuel or spark to one or more cylinders.  Even at high RPMs each cylinder only fires a few times per second so you can only adjust a few times per second.  

 

I have driven the Roadster on sheet ice & its amazing - floor the pedal and the car just moves forwards at walking pace slowly picking up speed.  It was way more controllable than my 4wd Audi on the same ice (which is a nice German made car!)

[Günter]

Andrew -no, those Merc-drivers just have more money to claim against any action taken there..

 

it is no technical difference, based on the laws  between a Fiat Punto owner and a SLR-owner

..just money -and if you see the price tag of a Tesla you can expect to see same behaviour from Tesla owners ..

 

 

 

 

 

Alan, I can too pull away without smokin tires ..as I just not use the 400Nm offered from the 918 from stand still, as my tires cant hold it

 

-you refered on the 'maximum Nm output' of your Tesla, and this is more than any road legal tire could hold anyway ..so there is no difference, the only thing is that your Tesla is limited in characteristics to be within 'road legal' /California friendly style  ..so you do not use 'full power' ..you just use what you are allowed to use by factory setup and computer control  -that's a big difference and is not comparable.

 

Add a intelligent power control to the 918 and a suitable gearing and you could accelerate up to 60mph in comperable ways I would say.. minimum loss for shifting would be there of corse, as it is no direct drive

[USAndretti42]

In the UK you might get into trouble pulling away from the lights if you smoked the tires or slid around trying to get traction.  In the Tesla though  there is no noise & no smoke you just put your foot down and pull away in a dead straight line.  Thats why you can do it all the time, its difficult to see what the police have to complain about?  (OK you have to be careful say at a roundabout as someone not paying attention might think they have time to pull out in front of you).

 

I think the reason traction is better is better is that the electronics can instantly control the power and torque.  In a normal car traction control has quite a lag - when wheelspin is detected you have to start cutting fuel or spark to one or more cylinders.  Even at high RPMs each cylinder only fires a few times per second so you can only adjust a few times per second.  

 

I have driven the Roadster on sheet ice & its amazing - floor the pedal and the car just moves forwards at walking pace slowly picking up speed.  It was way more controllable than my 4wd Audi on the same ice (which is a nice German made car!)

It's a bit more than a few times per second.  At 6,000 rpm the engine is rotating at 100Hz.  A 4-cylinder is firing at 200Hz so you could reduce power in 5ms if the control system were up to it. 

[Bibs]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/uk-build-world-s-fastest-production-electric-vehicle

 

[Suddabym]

Man, that car looks familiar. I just can't quite put my finger on it...