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Cross gate cable adjustment

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Hi all S3 n/a 86 reverse gear is a pig to find, lots of talk on here but I can find the answer (help)

So I take the pin out and then i get reverse, so it needs to be adjusted, is it the nuts where it clamps to the the frame or do you just turn the rod to extend it, I have changed all the gear link bushes, if it is the nut does anybody know ther size. Thanks Danny

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I need to do some work on mine as I can get 1st and 2nd (left hand side of gate) and Reverse but not 5th which are both on the left hand side of box. I can get 5th if I lay under the car and push the selector. I asked Andy Clements about this and he advised me to get under the car and have someone try to select 5th and see if I can work out which way I need to adjust the length of that bar which pushes the cross gate over. 

 

In short I think you need to adjust the bar length. Help from a mate will help

 

Buddsy

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I'm going to have to do that with my S4 as well. 5th has been notchy for a bit now. Went through all the w/shop manual adjustments, but the problem with 5th is still there. Not all the time. Sometimes it just won't fully select. Doesn't jump out of gear. Just worrying that it is not fully engaging.

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I had problems with the 5th and reverse in my S3T

It turned out to be the roll pin in the base of the gear lever was bent and restricting movement.

Replaced the old pin and replaced with a nice new straight one and job done. Was fine ever since.

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That will probably be my next thing to look at. Everything down at the translator end was nice and tight with no freeplay and all adjusted correctly as well. Has to be at the selector end I suppose.

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Yep, those using Renault boxes (so UK read as Stevens onwards) use a different selector and rather than the roll-pin being the thing to give sloppiness it's the brass and rubber bushing between the stick and the cables.

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Cross gate problems....the usual cause of bad gear selection, often blamed on "red hose syndrome". The cross gate cable pulls the linkage to get 1st and 2nd...3rd and 4th are the middle of the gate to which the system is sprung loaded ...5th requires a bit of a push from the cable, and reverse a large push. Cables don't push very well....(!) (don't forget to lift the lever to get reverse, too...)The causes of selection problems are : wear in the pin between the cable and the bellcrank, wear in the bellcrank, wear in the bellcrank bush, wear of the pin at the other end of the bellcrank and wear in the slot this pin engages in on the selector system. Wear in any or all of these places means that the cross gate cable can't push the selectors enough to get sufficient cross gate movement to allow proper selection of reverse ( or 5th if it's really bad!) Anything other than truly sloppy wear can be adjusted by adjusting the cross gate cable. It needs to be moved so that it pushes out a bit further...so lengthening the rod bit at the end should work. Assuming the adjustment isn't rusted solid (!) The other possibility is to move the cable outer towards the gearbox by adjusting the nuts on the bracket....or even ( as in my case as these were a solid lump too!) by grinding away a small amount of the bracket so that the cable shifts a few mm further towards the back of the car.

 

Of all these....you can get new bushes for the bellcrank pivot; bushing the pin where the cable connects to the bellcrank and using a larger diameter pin is easy enough....a bit of weld on the large pin where the bellcrank engages the selector shaft, and a bit of filing after, gets rid of any slackness there. The linkage becomes far nicer without all the slop, and you will probably find it no longer needs adjustment!  

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Turned my rod three times and it worked great and so simple. The redhose syndrome is a bit misleading ...on for example the lotusespritworld site. I mean if you only have the problem with the reverse gear when hot you can try this simple thing first with just a 10mm wrench.

 

Thumbs up for the ideas guys.

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The red hose thing is, in my opinion, more of a red herring! Perhaps on LHD vehicles the hose goes nearer to hot bits of the engine and tends to swell when the internal pressure increases....but I can see no connection between clutch system and reverse gear selection, as long as you can get all the other gears without "graunching"! Crossgate adjustment/rectification is the first thing to try...and it's usually easy and free! 

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Moley you saved my life! I found I could get 1,2,3,4 and reverse ok but could not get 5th. I was scratching my head and thought only thing I could do was to take up the boot floor and open the gearbox to find out what was going on. Started to look at doing that tonight but its not a quick job. One thing you said about having to lift to get reverse stuck in my mind and I was finding getting reverse easy without having to lift. I disconnected the crossgate from the box and still didnt think I could get 5th but after some head scratching I found it. I then had to reduce the length of my cross gate. Now I have to lift for reverse to give that "bit" more and I have all gears including 5th!! 

 

Wahaey joy!!

 

Buddsy

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OK, I have a problem with 4th.

All other gears fine, never an issue but 4th can be difficult but only on shifting down from 5th.

3rd to 4th always OK.

Somethimes, on failing to find 4th, shifting back to into 5th then allows 4th to be found.

No graunching, no clutch slip, I have to lift to get reverse. 3rd and 5th are very close together but I assume that is normal?

 

I have hesitated asking the question as I am concerned its a box issue. (Ostrich mentality)

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Yea I know what you mean about not wanting to find anything bad!

 

Im sure Harry will be able to put you right but have you checked oil level?

 

Good luck

 

Buddsy

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Oil - I checked that last week and if anything, too much! I was very careful to check via the correct 'bung' Dont know how I managed to overfill - maybe a slightly different level surface? But, would too much cause the issue?

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Harry  (dsvitesse1) the gearbox chap advised me too much isn't an issue. When I refilled mine I bought 3 bottles added 2 and was going to check level and add as required. 3 bottles is too much as per spec but he said I would be fine to fill with 3 bottles.

 

If you're not sure about anything re your gearbox ask him!

 

http://www.ds-vitesse.com/

 

 

Buddsy

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Take the top off the box and have a peer inside. You will see all the gear selectors...it may be that one of them has come loose on the selector shaft and isn't moving the bits inside as it should. Some of them are held by tightening the clamp included in the selector and then wire locking the screw; this might be loose if not done properly.... or you may even have an incipient failure of the selector itself. I've just had a shufti at the Manual; there is a stop on the 4th gear selector; this sticks out the back of the box and limits how far the selector moves when it engages 4th. If that is set too far in, then 4th gear may not be selected correctly. There are procedures for setting the selector positions using shims to get them in the correct places, then they are tightened and the setting tools removed. Harry will have these; Moley, on the other hand, had only native cunning and guile. And that works too!!

 

There are spring loaded interlock detents housed in the front and rear of the casing, these hold the selector shafts in the right places. I have known these springs to fail (not on an Esprit, but back at the beginning of time on an MG TC) this manifests itself as gear selection problems or jumping out of gear. Really, the thing to do is to remove the boot panel behind the engine, make sure the top of the box is clean and take the top off. Then spend a while with a cuppa peering inside and prodding at it...the operation is pretty straightforward, you'll be able to see what ought to happen when you select the gears....then see if there are any obvious problems around the 4th to 5th movement. It's the same selector whether you go from 3rd to 4th or 5th to 4th, but the operating gubbins in the gearbox top might not be moving smoothly across the gate...have a good look at the places where the levers from the gearbox top move in the selectors and see if you can notice anything odd. 

 

You may have gathered these are just my ramblings, there's no form to them...just writing as I think of things..... It might be possible that, when you select 4th from 5th, the selector shaft mechanism is going a bit too far and tries to select 2nd gear as well. The box is spring loaded to the 3rd/4th position, so that shouldn't happen....but it might! The fingers could even get bent....Anyway, some food for thought....I'd also check the crossgate mechanism for wear, it won't hurt to do that and could even fix it! The whole thing's pretty wobbly and it needs precision.

 

Harry is the Gearbox Man....very helpful chap!

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Thanks John - plenty for me to inspect. I'll take a look and see if it makes sense to me!

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My cross gate cable broke yesterday!

It was the threaded bar "adjustment" bit that goes between the gearbox and bellhousing. It just snapped in 2 on the threaded part, which quite frankly was seized solid so it was of no use for adjustment anyway.

The bad news was that I was 85 miles from home. The good news was that I was outside Dave Lisle's (Changes) house when it happened because I had just driven over there to get the engine looked over after the rebuild he did on it last year.

So, in to Dave's garage and after a brief look it was decided to make a tapped sleeve that would go over both sides of the snapped bar and then wind it back together. Dave duly got to work and within an hour or so, it was all back together. I must say it works a treat!

After an oil change, some chat about other things on the car and some er, well, chat I drove back home without an issue. I still really can't believe my luck that such a thing befell me literally right on Dave's doorstep, because anywhere else and it would have almost certainly been an AA job.

 

Thanks again Dave.

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Lotus serendipity strikes again!! Don't you just love fixes like that.....well done, Dave!!

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