simonb Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Media is coming out on the Alfa 4C, and Maserati production facility looks impressive. How does it compare to Hethel (as it is now) http://4c-forums.com/Thread-What-goes-into-building-the-4C-Alfa-tells-us-and-shows-us-with-vids-and-pics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4VFP4xOS0c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QEbZxlg2xE and chassis lay up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJhI9l-XJKs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Apart from the chassis roller I thought it looked quite similar to Lotus when I visited in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hows the price looking on the 4c? Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramjet Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I still can't get past the light pods. Bloody awful! Quote All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit. Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others. For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted June 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Launch edition is £52K, with a £16K deposit down to confirm order. Standard edition price not out yet, but it will be forty something. The lack of a cloverleaf badge suggests that there will be a faster one. Talk seems to firm up the idea of a convertible, but I suspect that this will be on the lines of the Exige S roadster, with a removable roof Lights are OK IMHO - the change to the wing mirrors is the biggest bit of butchery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy1969 Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 I still can't get past the light pods. Bloody awful! THIS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obione Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 It does look similar to the Evora, but not in a nice way, and the front end is very odd. Just my opinion, but I know I am right !!! 1 Quote This book is guaranteed to NOT change your life…but it does mention a Lotus Esprit...To enjoy this masterpiece, download Martin now. Simples!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedaSay Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Looks like an Evora maybe but it's just 25 bhp more powerful than an Elise S and it is only a bit lighter than an Elise S while using super high carbon fiber tech. the price is also in the Evora range which make the Elise S looking cheapish. And in my eyes the Elise S looks better. Mostly because Alfa design team got high on something really strong with the headligths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandrew Posted June 13, 2013 Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 I got to sit in one in Geneva this year. It's not at all likely to tempt me out of the Elise but on paper the numbers between it and my SC are pretty close to identical. Of course it's missing a proper gearbox. What surprised me was the lack of perceived quality improvement over the Elise. Maybe it was similar to the Tesla but it felt like the product of a mass-market producer, cheap feeling plastic switches and all. It would be night and day going between it and a modern Boxster / Cayman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony K Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I frequently hear people talking about how beautiful Alfa Romeos are, and have heard some nice things said about this car in particular. I beg to differ. I agree with the comments about the proportions, headlamps, and particularly the "ugly stick" as mentioned above. Some people have a bit of a herd mentality and think that because Alfa Romeo put something out, it must be beautiful. Truthfully, I think Alfa have had only a handful of good looking cars ever. The best thing about this 4C is that it is undeniably is an imitator of the Elise. For so many years, the Elise was completely a niche car; here comes Alfa Romeo copying the formula -- small lightweight mid-engined 4-cylinder of the same proportions (only not as good looking). I'm glad another manufacturer had the mettle to follow in the Elise's footsteps . . . but the Elise/Exige will always be the original, and as far as I can tell is still the best. Maybe once the Evora has been in production for ten years, the Italians will introduce a mid-engined V6 2+2, surround it with all kinds of lifestyle marketing, and act like they've created something great, too . . . Quote Tony K. Esprit S1s #355H & 454H Esprit S2.2 #324J 1991 Esprit SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 As Sparky once said to me 'You'll never see a mechanic with an Alfa'! 1 Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molemot Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I had an Alfa GTV from 1968...the Bertone designed one, that was actually penned by our chum Giugiaro. Very pretty and great fun,especially when sliding sideways...rusted nicely and the final blow was being smote from behind by some moron when I was stationary. My brother had three, iirc. I'd like another!! Quote Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softlips Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 It's the lights I don't like, seen it at the shows and every time I think those lights are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 few more videos... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzexh_EgPdQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwWyP8PJMZ4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU9-9pGpf2I On Wiki, the 4c is announced as 2000mm wide... as wide as a 458? Does the 4c look as a short Ferrari in 'real life'? Quote (ex) Elise S1 (VIN 357) LHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surferphil Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 It is an Elise clone! I thought it was a copy of the Evora (especially given the price) but now there is a picture with a person to scale the car - it's tiny. No doubt they will sell loads but I doub't they will get their money back with the cost of marketing and the Carbon chassis development. It looks like a loss leader designed to put Alfa back on the map. Does anyone know more about that?.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 (edited) Well, they plan to produce 2500 units a year so the Carbon tech seems able to cope with that. Also, Maserati may produce there own model from this plate-form. As per the Elise, the 4C seems 25cm wider (!!) if we believe the 2000mm width in the brochure ... so I'd compare the footprint of the 4C against the Exige V6 Never seen in the metal yet though.... Edited June 16, 2013 by FredP Quote (ex) Elise S1 (VIN 357) LHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony K Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Alfa need to let go of their trademark bird beak grille. They have been ruining the fronts of otherwise decent looking cars for decades with that stupid styling cue. Quote Tony K. Esprit S1s #355H & 454H Esprit S2.2 #324J 1991 Esprit SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramjet Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Funny. The grille I expect to see and I don't mind it. I'm not going to mention the headlights again. Bugger! Just did. Quote All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit. Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others. For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surferphil Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well, they plan to produce 2500 units a year so the Carbon tech seems able to cope with that. Also, Maserati may produce there own model from this plate-form. As per the Elise, the 4C seems 25cm wider (!!) if we believe the 2000mm width in the brochure ... so I'd compare the footprint of the 4C against the Exige V6 Never seen in the metal yet though.... The carbon is hand laid pre preg which will cost a lot per unit, irrespective of the high development cost, we aren't talking about platform sharing either as this is their first, Ferrari don't even use Carbon composite so this will be very expensive to develop a chassis and build a production line completely different to anything they have done before. 2500 units is a lot compared to Lotus Elise numbers but very little compared to the development cost. The weight figures published weren't Kerb weight as required by legislation so it's impossible to tell how this will end up compared to a lotus so who knows a £50k Elise clone, will it sell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 As per the production, the director of production is talking about 3,500 units per year in the article below, the carbon fiber features 13% of the components: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/4c/64466/alfa-romeo-4c-price-specs-and-release-date Having said that, auto express source is not the most reliable one. To reach this production rate, you need to sell a lot in Asia and US I think. Lotus don't even sell the Elise in the US anymore. In a 'normal' business, it won't make sense to produce a non-compliant model for your biggest market. 1 Quote (ex) Elise S1 (VIN 357) LHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surferphil Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I wouldn't pay much attention to the 13%, it's the most expensive part of the car to develop and most expensive to produce by a long way, CF does not lend it's self to mass production. There can be no flaws in the production line so you have to over engineer a big tolerance, in which case you undermine the weight saving. You still need a lot of metal to absorb the vibration and pass the crash test. Carbon Composite is too ridged and not good with heat to be used throughout the chassis, which makes development harder and diminishes the weight saving. This is why it looks to me like a marketing exercise to promote Alpha's technology. It will be quite an achievement. I'd love to know how much the chassis will actually weigh compared to the Elise chassis, I'm not at all into Alpha but this is a really interesting car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Indeed, you're right, and Ferrari clearly stated that they will use Aluminium in the future, CF is not part of the equation for their most selling models (they produce 7000 units per year!). But, yes, I think the experience is interesting particularly for Lotus. Quote (ex) Elise S1 (VIN 357) LHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedaSay Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Uh, Lotus has plenty of experience with Carbon fiber... So I don't know why alfa experience would be more relevant than the amount of work they've done on the Tesla roadster which was an Elise chassis with an all carbon skin, Even the roll hoop was carbon fiber on that thing. The fact that Lotus hasn't produced a full CF tub before !? They have as much if not much much more experience with composites than most companies in the industrie. Ferrari uses CF only with their most exclusive model for a reason and so do Porsche, which is is sticking to aluminum chassis with some steel body parts and Aston, which is switching to more carbon fiber skin but will sticking to the VVA derived VH architecture for now. Only Mclaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, have full carbon chassis and their cars are much pricier than the 4C. Only Pagani and Koenigsegg have both tubs and body panels carbon fiber as Mclaren is using some other form of composite for their body parts. My question is how does Alfa think that they can break even with such a car when the cost of producing the tub is probably killing it? Edited June 17, 2013 by NedaSay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBD Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Maybe they will use coal, and which is just carbon in its original form. Quote If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®! Captain, Lotus Airways. We fly lower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surferphil Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Indeed, you're right, and Ferrari clearly stated that they will use Aluminium in the future, CF is not part of the equation for their most selling models (they produce 7000 units per year!). But, yes, I think the experience is interesting particularly for Lotus. Especially if Lotus engineered the chassis for Alfa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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