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E Cigarettes to be "Licensed" Cynical tax or health worries


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Frankly, I am of the opinion that what the govt should do is say "We are missing out on tax money and licensing monies so we want to scare you all so you accept the tax!" Typical really, someone finds a good way to help people stop the worst effects of smoking tabacco and they are more concerned with their tax revenues....IMHO

 

Agree or disagree?

 

Are you in the know about something harmful that we don't know about? Just seems like a cynical move to me.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22870301
 

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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Nicotine ingestion by infants or  small children can be particularly toxic.  Poisoning in children in recent years mostly involves chewing nicotine replacement patches and gum, but also can occur from children eating cigarettes or cigarette butts. The concentrated e-cigarette liquid is just as poisonous and should be stored away with medicines.

Symptoms of nicotine poisoning have been seen in children who have eaten one-half piece of nicotine gum, a cigarette, cigarette butt, or bitten into a nicotine patch.

 

Symptoms can include sweating, vomiting, convulsions.

* Lethal dose in children is 1mg per kg of bodyweight - 30mg in a 30kg child, for instance.

* Nicotine gum contains either 2mg or 4mg of nicotine per piece.

 

The nicotine density listed for e-liquid is the number of milligrams of nicotine per milliliter in the E-Liquid. That means a 10ml bottle of 24mg nicotine e-liquid would have 240mg of nicotine in it (24mg x 10ml). Likewise, a 30ml bottle of 24mg e-liquid would have 720mg of nicotine in it (24mg x 30ml).

 

In the past nicotine was used as an effective insecticide, but was withdrawn from use as better and safer insecticides came into use

 

So, the readily available form of nicotine for vapour products really should be controlled in its quality and distribution and appropriate warnings should be provided on its storage and use. It is neat poison, actually quite different from the form of delivery by cigarettes.

 

Ciggies are bad because of the 500+ toxins you inhale which over a lifetime induce disease.

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Notwithstanding Alex's wholly valid response above, I'm absolutely certain the state is interested exclusively in our health, and has no agenda whatsoever to make piles of cash out of this. Perish the thought.

British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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My thoughts exactly Sparky.

 

Alex. I do understand the effects on children but simply putting an age limit on them, like cigarettes, would have the same effect. Licensing will involve testing and paying for a license by the manufacturers/importers. next step tax IMHO.

 

I'm not against licensing per-se but anything that stops these being easily available to ADULTS who want to stop breathing poison into their lungs should be encouraged.

 

As for the banning of them in a building/at work as the article says, I've never heard anything so ridiculous. They only breathe out water vapour and if that's toxic we are all f**ked

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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Bear in mind the companies most at financial risk here - some of the most powerful - and amoral - entities on the planet.

British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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Pharmacies are pretty available everywhere.

 

You also breath out nicotine as its not 100% absorbed by the inhalation process, so if you chuff away in work with an e-ciggie your colleague will be passive nicotine inhalers.  We know nicotine is super addictive.

 

Nicotine combines with a number of neurotransmitters in the brain and may contribute to the following effects:

 

 

Dopamine:

Pleasure, suppress appetite

Norepinephrine:

Arousal, suppress appetite

Acetylcholine:

Arousal, cognitive enhancement

Vasopressin:

Memory improvement

Serotonin:

Mood modulation, suppress appetite

Beta-endorphin:

Reduce anxiety / tension

 

Tobacco is as addictive as heroin (as a mood & behavior altering agent).

 

  • Nicotine is:
    • 1000 X more potent than alcohol
    • 10-100 X more potent than barbiturates
    • 5-10 X more potent than cocaine or morphine
  • A 1-2 pack per day smoker takes 200-400 hits daily for years. This constant intake of a fast acting drug (which affects mood, concentration & performance).. eventually produces dependence.
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I don't know but I've seen Alex's CV and I know what ever he says on the subject on toxins is correct!  :unworthy:

 

I think the problem with just sticking an age limit on something does nothing without licencing it's distribution.

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OK if Nicotine is 1000x more potent than alcohol, how come I could drive OK after 20 a day, but could not after half a bottle of Scotch 

Because the volume in the body after 20 cigs is far less of an impact than anywhere near 1/2 bottle of Scotch. I seem to recall my Chemistry teacher indicating that Nicotine is so string a single drop on your skin would be enough to kill you.

 

 

I might agree the gov't want to tax for income purposes but if that's the case, why not legalise and tax certain other substances, including marijuana or many of the "legal" highs that are subsequently banned? That makes me think there is some element of health consideration to the government's actions, perhaps not the only consideration but at least it's there. 

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What I am trying to point out is that these things are absolutely the best thing, health wise, to get people off smoking cigarettes and breathing in the toxins that Alex kindly told us about.

 

Anything, ANYTHING, that makes them more difficult to get hold of than cigarettes, will invariably effect this.

 

I know as an ex 20-40 a day man that if it was more difficult to get e-cigs than tabs then I would go tabs every day. Cigarettes are available in supermarkets, local shops, absolutely everywhere, 24/7. My pharmacist is open 5 1/2 days a week 9-6 Mon-Fri and 9-1 Sat. Now what happens when you need a refill Sat afternoon? Sunday? You can't get it so you go and buy tabs and smoke those.

 

This is my main concern with this!!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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Fags are available everywhere because they rake in £billions in tax revenue.  Cash is king.

British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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What I am trying to point out is that these things are absolutely the best thing, health wise, to get people off smoking cigarettes and breathing in the toxins that Alex kindly told us about.

 

Anything, ANYTHING, that makes them more difficult to get hold of than cigarettes, will invariably effect this.

 

I know as an ex 20-40 a day man that if it was more difficult to get e-cigs than tabs then I would go tabs every day. Cigarettes are available in supermarkets, local shops, absolutely everywhere, 24/7. My pharmacist is open 5 1/2 days a week 9-6 Mon-Fri and 9-1 Sat. Now what happens when you need a refill Sat afternoon? Sunday? You can't get it so you go and buy tabs and smoke those.

 

This is my main concern with this!!

Kimbers, how do you know they're a positive thing in terms of health? Can you vouch for the fact the chemicals in them are what they claim to be and nothing else?

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Nope. But they are just nicotine in a suspension fluid, non?

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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Should be, but are they? That's the point of classing them as medication, they can then only be sold by certain retailers, they are traceable and manufacturers have standards to which they have to work. If any of those involved fail to meet anything they've committed an offence, as it is if something i the chemicals is possibly carcinogenic or poisonous it's for the enforcement agencies (police etc) to prove by means of years of testing.

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Have they said they will only be sold by pharmacies? My local garage sells paracetamol etc.

These things should be tested and the effects on others too. Although they don't contain many of the harmful constituents tobacco has, they do contain others and nicotine itself is not an innocuous substance.

There is a commonly held myth that the taxes raised by smoking are more than the health costs to the tax payer. This is not the case, if tobacco use stopped the public purse would eventually be better off.

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NHS budget 2012 £104.3bn

Costs of smoking to NHS by two independent reports £2.7 to £5.2bn

 

Revenues for 2012 by smokers £12.1bn

 

Plenty of milk in that cow, government cant afford to let it go dry.

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Look at the figures calculated by non tobacco company supported data.

We've done the figures many times on individual patients (very few of my patients have not been smokers) and all have cost vastly more than they will ever have paid in taxes during their smoking life time. Even just adding their major admissions up we regularly get up to £70K. Now, I admit this is looking at individual patients and many will not get ill. Others argue if they get so ill they will die much younger and thus save the economy money by not claiming their pension (so long).

Research conducted by Policy Exchange found found that while "tax on tobacco raised £10 billion a year for the Treasury, the annual cost of healthcare and other consequences of smoking totalled £13.74 billion."

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