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Hi John,

 

Well assuming you set up the master just as it was set up before, could something have happened at the slave end of things? Did you change the amount of thread to the right of the clutch fork? I seem to recall 12,5 mm being required for our cars. I'm gonna give it a shot myself in a few days!

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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No weird noises coming from the gearbox/clutch that I know of, but I can check with someone under the car to be extra sure.   I've been reading more forums and a similar thread (resistance/sticking

Woah!  Never use DOT5 brake fluid in the Lotus (brakes or clutch) the DOT5 fluid is silicone, and will froth and become more compressible.  It also won't absorb moisture, which can lead to pockets of

Quick update from Captain Hindsight (yours truly) - I discovered why my piston felt so rough at the end of travel - the internals of the slave were corroded to hell. It had been fitted without any red

John - how did you manage to refit the piston to the master cylinder after rebuilding? I semi destroyed the seal in the process - the amount of force putting it back in place was ridiculous. I managed to remove the bastard after applying 100 psi through the fill hole (!) and then replaced it with a smaller seal that was half the thickness of the intended one - hopefully it doesn't leak too much. Will need to buy a replacement cylinder by the looks of it.

 

Did you also have bits left over from the master seal kit? Did you have any issues refitting the piston? I think the rubber mushrooms when forcing it back in, but I have no idea what I could have done differently - I followed Girlings own rebuild instructions - they simply say "push piston back into cylinder" (after lubing things with brake fluid that is.)

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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I haven't done a hydraulic cylinder repair in over 20 years.  Seriously, why bother when for a few extra quid you can give peace of mind by replacing the whole thing for a lot less hassle?

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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It was more of a learning exercise, but the way it looks now I might have bigger issues - I replaced all seals and set up the system again - and the clutch is still heavy as hell. My friends 89 SE has been set up so the clutch is softer than a modern Ford Focus.

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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Ok, so I adjusted the link on the pushrod at the pedal by about a cm and it is working great now.

 

My piston went right in with no issue. Yep, I had a couple large rubber washers left over that I assume would go between the firewall and master cylinder but there werent any on there to begin with so I left them off. Plus, I think these kits fit more than the Esprit so they may be for other cars.

 

Not sure why you had such an issue getting the piston back in but if it is that heavy and you needed that much force getting it out, somethign may be wrong.

 

Sparky, it is hardly a few extra quid as a new one is more than 4 times the cost of a rebuild kit. But, Vanya that may be the best solution for you since you are having issues with the rebuild.

Edited by Techspy

John
94 S4

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If, as an Esprit owner, one considers less than £100 to be 'a lot' rather than 'a few', I respectfully suggest that one is driving the wrong car.

Vanya, I suspect you're looking at one of two issues: the cylinder bore is wrong (may have been replaced previously by someone seeking to save money), or it's the clutch itself. has it always been tough?

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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I never said it was "a lot", I simply stated that the price difference is over 4 times more. You have no idea of my Lotus experience or my financial ability and should not be making any assumptions about my chosen vehicle.....respectfully or not. The fact that people with money have money is because they make good financial decisions. IE spending $20 instead of $100 when not necessary.

 

Anyway, it is possible that the master cylinder has been replaced with a different unit as you say. Vanya, you may want to get the whole unit as I said 2 posts up.

 

Good luck.

John
94 S4

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Actually I was responding to Vanya, not you.

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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Ah, the wonders of web comms - interpretation of statements without expression or inflection!  No need to apologise, John - I'm guilty because I'm too lazy to type exactly what I mean.

 

I do get a bit fed up of the usual LOTUS acronym being thrown at me wherever I go.  Unfortunately, it's often because owners, for whatever reason, have gone 'cheap' on their cars.  I see lots of Esprits; many are well-maintained, a significant proportion are abysmally bodged and let the marque down.  I always tell people that if they buy an Esprit they should be prepared for a potential outlay of £2k a year.  That way, most years they'll get a pleasant surprise, and the occasional nasty shock will be bearable.

 

I am aware that Vanya likes to play, so fair enough.  But after 34 years of doctoring cars I don't even bother with variables like that any more; I just buy the right stuff first time and make the problem go away as cleanly and quickly as possible, thereby getting the car on the road and helping to remove the sting in the tail of that irksome acronym. 

Edited by Sparky

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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Sparky - I got my Esprit for just under 12,000 GBP last year - it's less than half of what a well-sorted left hand drive Swedish car would have cost me, but I also factored into account that as someone with no practical experience with cars, I'd likely screw the car up and it would gut me to mess up a pristine show-car. In other words, I bought it as an introduction to Lotus and supercar ownership. 

 

As a result of the above pricing, one can imagine the condition of the vehicle - I've found a million and one botched fixes on the car since buying it and am constantly uncovering more. The previous owners didn't necessarily go the cheap route, but farming out the labor to incompetent mechanics has taken its toll on the car. I'm still scathing about the square toothed early S3 timing belt that a "reputable" garage fitted to my SE prior to me driving it off to Sweden, and wrapping my blinking ABS light in black cloth to make it appear as if they'd solved the issue.

 

Anyhow (sorry for getting off topic) -  part of the learning curve is to understand how things work and how they're put together - as such I tried the rebuild kits. I COULD go and buy new parts, but my outlay since last year when I bought the car is nearing £4k - and I still have a ways to go - brake overhaul, sand blasting springs, wishbones you name it, bushing replacement, total respray etc etc (god forbid if the engine packs up somewhere in the midst of things). With this in mind, I'd like to minimize my costs where possible. I could of course just dump the car, but the objective is essentially a total restoration of the SE to bring it in line with concourse vehicles over time.

 

Getting back to the clutch - I found it impossible to fit the piston into the cylinder after putting on the new bushing - no amount of grease or lube would get it in there. It required 50 psi to blow the original out of the cylinder in the first place.

 

The slave is also quite tough and I'll be taking it off again today and putting the old seal back on till the new one arrives.

 

The clutch itself might be badly installed, but I do suspect a lot of the effort comes from poor master/slave - I realized this after putting everything back together that I maybe should have read between the lines of the Girling rebuild instructions and honed/re-bored the cylinders prior to the fitting of new parts. Hindsight's a bitch.

 

I'm not about to go and bash Lotus or use that God-forsaken acronym just because ownership can be an uphill struggle - I've seen and driven sorted cars, and I know firsthand what neglect will do to them...

 

Techspy - both the master and slave appear to be the genuine article - I didn't notice any pitting or scoring in the cylinders prior to refitting so I didn't go in there with any wire mesh or a hone - I've never seen it stated in instructions so I just tried to push them back in after lubing with DOT4. Furthermore, I've watched a lot of YouTube vids of hydraulic cylinder repair and folks don't seem to have any trouble with replacing pistons either.

 

Anyways I have a new master on order and I bought a £6,99 slave cylinder from Ebay for a Land Rover II-IIA which apparently fits perfectly according to many sources on the forums. Once those are on, we'll know if I'll be pulling the gearbox to get at the clutch... 

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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For the land rover slave cylinder you will probably need a dash 3 to dash 3 adaptor so you can screw on the clutch pipe, Thats what I did.

 

I paid about £15 in all for the new cylinder and adaptor. My car has had various bodges in the past with wrong screws/bolts etc in place I'm gradualy sorting these out as I work on the car. To be honest I have not spent a fortune on the car this is it roughly since 2007

 

New wheels and tyres £500 (GT3)

Rear caliper rebuild £200

Hispec front calipers and discs £150

Sport 300 front lip £15

Red hose £40

Cam belt change £90  (Beltfest/spark meister extrodinar)

Gear knob £6 (momo)

New fog lights £15  (Lotus sale)

Leather dye £30

New spring etc for carb £6

A/C fixed £50

slave cylinder £15

Gear translator £40

sunroof fixing £7.00

 

Plus oil/filters etc for changes

 

the car is nort to costly to run, if you do work yourself. I'm sorting the rad pack out, has cost me about £5 in new fittings, but if I was paying labour it would be loads of cash.

 

in a couple of years it's going to need body work done, and an exhaust but I'll prep myself etc.

Edited by red vtec

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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I reckon what's happened is you've got the correct overhaul kit for the car as per the parts manual but the slave and master cylinders fitted may not necessarily be the correct ones for your vehicle given the sort of things you've discovered since you've owned it.

 

BTW I had no trouble fitting the master and slave overhaul kit at the same time I  replaced the red hose on mine and I wouldn't claim to be much good at this spanner wielding malarkey.

Edited by Choppa

Normally Aspirated - and lovin' it!

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Thanks for the tip Chris - I still have the red hose on mine - will I still need that adaptor? Otherwise I'll pop out and buy one before it arrives. Hell even if it turns out to be garbage, for 6,99 I wont be crying myself to sleep anytime soon...

 

Colin - you have a point although both units look original to me. Could be the cylinder wear is just too extreme for them to be rebuilt without reboring/honing...

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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Quick update from Captain Hindsight (yours truly) - I discovered why my piston felt so rough at the end of travel - the internals of the slave were corroded to hell. It had been fitted without any red rubber grease by the PO's preferred workshop. What's more, nobody had installed a circlip either. Joy.

Edited by Vanya
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Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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Ah ok then. yep, replacing the whole unit sounds like the way to go. For what its worth, all the original seals looked fine in mine and the bore on both were nice and smooth. I seem to remember that the master had been replaced in teh past 10 years but I can be sure. Anyway, I didn't find anything that said "theres the problem" when I rebuilt mine.

John
94 S4

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Ok everything refitted - it looks like the master has some damage as well judging by the amount of resistance I get near the end of travel - but now I have a new problem - some god awful noise from the clutch fork when I depress the pedal. What the heck?

 

Anyone know what this is? It DEFFO wasnt there before I removed the slave.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYtPLhBOlxM

 

Do I need to lube the pivot on the clutch fork all of a sudden?

Edited by Vanya

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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Quick update:

 

The above noise was courtesy of an oversized seal in SJ Sportscars cylinder rebuild kit - after replacing the original piston seal on the slave, the noise went away.

 

Lessons learned: refitting a piston assembly in the slave or master should require finger strength, not a hammer.

 

I also readjusted the clutch fork to show 12,5 mm of thread and took the car out for a drive. The PO had screwed the adjuster ALL THE WAY IN which a friend of mine suspected was a quick and dirty way to sell the car with a worn out clutch - after being quoted a price for a clutch replacement I thought I was gonna have a breakdown. Anyhow I took the car out and I didn't get any slip in any gear driving up to 90 km/h.....Hope I'm ok for now.

 

I've read about other people experiencing such maladjustment before (adjuster all the way in) - I'm sure it's been bad to my clutch, but at least now I can start mentally preparing for tackling the job myself in the event slippage should occur.

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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  • 2 weeks later...

New update.

 

Lesson learned:

IF your clutch sticks at the bottom of travel......for the love of all that is good, before worrying or spending ANY money: check that some numpty hasn't used the wrong hole on the clutch pedal. Mine was set to "Brake" which caused binding on the bolt that goes through the pedal. Switch to the correct hole and all of a sudden, worlds softest clutch.

 

I only went and bought a new braided hose, master and slave to find this out at this point.

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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No problem per se, but it always stings a little finding out there was actually nothing wrong with the old setup.

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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There are lots of people out there (or on here) who replace mechanical parts just because they're looking dull/ rusty etc so I'm assuming you're not one of those, you can probably guess I'm not. 

On a positive note, if either of the cylinders were to fail due to seals etc you'd probably get very little notice from the time the problem becomes apparent to the time it becomes impossible to drive the car, so having those parts available isn't a bad thing.

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Took it out for a test drive now after changing the bits and bleeding but I have a new problem - when I put the car in first, roll a bit, then put it back in neutral, I think the clutch is dragging - I hear clonking from behind me and after a few seconds the engine stalls out due to the revs being dragged down.

 

Still some air in the system or?

 

After driving it at highway speeds there was no slipping under any load or gear....but every time I start from cold and maneuver my way out of the garage complex it keeps dying due to the above neutral drag...

 

note: no grinding of gears or actual selection issues, just when returning to neutral and lifting the clutch, it'll stall out.

Edited by Vanya

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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This saga never ends: I noticed that I couldn't push in the rod deeper into the slave with my finger, which was odd since there was no way in hell it was all the way in, so I pulled the slave (which was 3 days old, a brand new Land Rover II-A slave) and discovered that the piston was stuck in the bore - it took a bitchin' amount of force to get it moving in further, at which point the spring couldn't do anything, so in other words, it wasn't returning. A far cry from my old girling which would actuate like butter.

 

So long story short: off goes the Land Rover cheapo £6,99 component, and in goes the old (but not yet faulty) original Girling. The seller claims they've never ever had an issue like this which begs the question what the hell happened - the piston was VERY easy to actuate once I received it - did the DOT4 cause the seal to swell up? I don't get it. It's not rocket science.

 

But anyway. I see Sparky's point when he says "just buy the original part and save yourself the hassle".

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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