Recommended Brakes/Rotors for V8 Esprit

[mamovaka]

I need to replace the front brakes/rotors

What do you guys recommend for the pads/rotors on the front and the back even?

Drilled? Slotted? any opinions?

I could use model numbers and good places to order them too

THANKS!

[th4neuk]

Hi There,

This is another thing that I'm doing at PNM next week is hopefully upgrading the discs alround to probably drilled rather than slotted. I'm not 100% on the exact prices of them yet but Superdave might be able to help on that??

They are much bigger than standard though and are discs and bells so are quite a bit lighter.

Not sur if that helps??

Cheers

[mamovaka]

Is there a product number? I am trying to price is out... find them online that I can order?

[Vulcan Grey]

I need to replace the front brakes/rotors

What do you guys recommend for the pads/rotors on the front and the back even?

Drilled? Slotted? any opinions?

I could use model numbers and good places to order them too

THANKS!

First off, you need to state which Esprit V8 you have, so that people can help you...

The 96-99 Esprit V8 (except the 1999 Sport 350) all used Brembo brakes. The 96 wasn't sold in the USA. The 99 Sport 350 had AP racing Front calipers with AP rotors, and the standard Brembo rear caliper on larger rotors with a different bracket. All the USA cars starting with 2000 had this AP/Brembo setup. In Europe, I believe the Brembos were still found on some models (GT) and the AP's were either optional or standard on the SE. Don't know exactly.

Anyways. Which year, which model, which country?

Second, it doesn't matter... Cause I don't think you can get the AP or Brembo discs from just anyone. Lotus makes sure to get non-standard components, and doesn't allow AP, OZ, or Brembo for example, to sell parts for Lotus cars. You must buy them from a dealer or Lotus parts place as far as I know. I could be wrong cause I don't make a habit of paying attention to V8 issues.

There might be a few other places where you can buy AP rotors that'll fit, but that might be Larry in California... I really don't know.

[rydning]

Make sure you dont buy this EBC disc with pretending drilled and slotts because they are only ment for show off not for hard use....

I would have used new stock disc without slots or drilling.Because that is the disc that can take more heat and last longer.

If you are planing to upgrade.You need bigger and wider disc to help you.

What is your intentsion here? Performance or show off?

[mamovaka]

1999 Esprit V8 US model, however I do notice the front brake says brembo while the rear brake does not, so it sounds more like the 2000 setup.. I dunno..

my intention is good performance brakes, the people at jaeparts.com (lotus supplier) recommend drilled brakes that are frozen to make them stronger.. with EBS yellow pads.. this sound good? they also suggested I try to ground the damaged rotor first..

[Vulcan Grey]

1999 Esprit V8 US model, however I do notice the front brake says brembo while the rear brake does not, so it sounds more like the 2000 setup.. I dunno..

my intention is good performance brakes, the people at jaeparts.com (lotus supplier) recommend drilled brakes that are frozen to make them stronger.. with EBS yellow pads.. this sound good? they also suggested I try to ground the damaged rotor first..

Your 99 has the Brembo fronts and Brembo rears.

Front Disc 296mm x28mm (min 25mm)

Rear Disc 300mm x22mm (min 20.4mm)

Front Caliper Brembo 4 Pot

Rear Caliper Brembo with parking function

You won't be able to stick bigger thicker rotors in the Lotus Calipers. The calipers are only made for a small range of rotor thicknesses. it is possible to mount the caliper further out with a larger bracket and have a larger diameter rotor... But that's probably not what you want.

You can get drilled rotors, but to have a rotor drilled after it is cast will weaken it. Drilling is really to remove mass. And is really only a good idea when the holes are cast into the rotor when it is made, not drilled later. Slotting a rotor creates edges that scrape the pad and provides more instant bite, while also cleaning the pad and getting rid of gasses. The slots will wear pads faster, and weaken the rotor (unless designed for it).

As long as you are over the minimum thickness spec for the rotor (see above) you can have it blanchard ground (not turned on a lathe). Grinding will give a good hard surface with consistent friction. Turning will induce stresses and weaken the metal, while removing material and making it more prone to over heating later.

I don't know about which pad to recommend. EBC Yellows are new I think, don't know.

The stock Brembos on the Esprit V8 are not too bad, though they do lack diameter and thermal mass and isolation from the fluid. Also the rotors aren't floating which means the hat can distort the rotor.

The best upgrade is a full set of Brembo or AP racing... which is what I'm doing, but not what you're after I think.

I would grind or replace your damaged rotors. Figure out why it was damaged in the first place, fix that. Try new fluid and pads. And if you really feel like it you can get those cryogenically frozen rotors.

[rydning]

1999 Esprit V8 US model, however I do notice the front brake says brembo while the rear brake does not, so it sounds more like the 2000 setup.. I dunno..

my intention is good performance brakes, the people at jaeparts.com (lotus supplier) recommend drilled brakes that are frozen to make them stronger.. with EBS yellow pads.. this sound good? they also suggested I try to ground the damaged rotor first..

If its the smaler V8 brakes I wouldnt go for drilled.Because you are gone get more temperature in they than the bigger ones and they will crack earlier between the holes.

If you change pads up front I will recomend to chance in the rear also to the same type.Too make sure you maintain good braking balance.

The thing with EBC pads I dont like is that they have very low frictions and low pedal feel (I`m not sure about the yellow pads,but red and greenshit)

I now Lotus Is using Ferodo 2500 as their upgradet pads and I can realy recomend that.Good friction and feel.

There is some other pads also but I dont think they make it to the Esprit.

[airbusdrvr]

Keep it simple!

Just buy the stock rotors from Lotus. They will work fine though they're not cheap. I use Carbotech Panther Plus pads. They are awesome. I have four track day events on my Carbotechs with turned rotors and they are still in good shape. Stay away from EBC reds. They will eat up rotors! You will not be able to buy any brake parts from AP directly ( if you were thinking of upgrading) . I tried but then came to my senses. I do know of someone that has installed larger rotors ( 1" larger) but it requires a braket for the caliper and a different rotor cap. Unless your racing every weekend just stick with stock rotors.

Ask for Matt Nicholson at Carbotech and he will hook you up.

[Feffman]

Keep it simple!

Just buy the stock rotors from Lotus. They will work fine though they're not cheap. I use Carbotech Panther Plus pads. They are awesome. I have four track day events on my Carbotechs with turned rotors and they are still in good shape. Stay away from EBC reds. They will eat up rotors! You will not be able to buy any brake parts from AP directly ( if you were thinking of upgrading) . I tried but then came to my senses. I do know of someone that has installed larger rotors ( 1" larger) but it requires a braket for the caliper and a different rotor cap. Unless your racing every weekend just stick with stock rotors.

Ask for Matt Nicholson at Carbotech and he will hook you up.

Double what Eric said!!!

Feff

[superdavelotus]

Hi there,

He's the PNM Prices off the top off my head. I will double these and confirm them back to you.

Direct front replacement discs

[Fred Basset]

Dave much as I admire your loyalty to PNM I think that to describe the HiSpec equipment as something "even better" than AP is questionable.

I've experienced both of these companies components and can't equate HiSpec to high quality. AP make stunning products and give great feedback and advice. I've had them on 4 cars now.

I had HiSpec on one and they won't be used on any of my cars again.

Just to reiterate whats been said above, drilled discs are not a great idea for road cars and an even worse idea on road cars used on the track occassionally. You get fissure cracks round the holes which weaken the disc. Discs with "drilled holes" are just a serious accident waiting to happen.

Regards

Fred

Hi there,

He's the PNM Prices off the top off my head. I will double these and confirm them back to you.

Direct front replacement discs

[superdavelotus]

Fred,

You need to read the thread again and my post before writing replies like you have. I have, under no circumstances said the Hi-Spec is better than AP. AP are a far superior product than Hi-Spec, so where did I actually say that then?

Pano has a 99 V8 with Brembo calipers, he asked for discs and possible upgrades. I gave his such options and said if he wanted something better than a simple disc upgrade then go for the Hi-Spec. Never mentioned anything about AP.

And when I mentioned about even better, it was the mere stopping power of a monster 6 pot compared to a Brembo 4 pot with a pad size that makes the Brembo look puny.

As for loyalty to PNM, I have none. I have opted for using by Brembo calipers and the disc and bell even though PNM have tried to talk me into Hi-Spec calipers. In my opinion the set up I have is far more than I need, even for track days!

And yes I have drilled rotors which are perfect with no cracks whatsoever! I do however agree with you on something here, I wouldn't recommend others using drilled for road/track use unless they are prepared to replace them. If you let them cool down properly which a lot of owner don't) then you shoudl have a problem. Slotted is the way to go but I like the look of drilled so I drilled my own.

[superdavelotus]

Here's some other options from PUK & SJ Sportscars to even the balance out

SJ SPORTSCARS

FRONT BRAKE DISC (For Brembro brakes) (Sold in pairs) Brembro equiped cars from aproximatley 1994. SJ082J0019 PAIR 126.93

Braking | Discs

REAR BRAKE DISC (Brembro) A082D4160F EACH 117.42

Braking | Discs

REAR BRAKE DISC (For Brembro cars) (Non Lotus) (Pair) SJ082J0048 PAIR 153.00

Braking | Discs

PAIR REAR BRAKE DISCS and BELLS (Sport 350) SJ082J0053 PAIR 735.00

Competition, Modification & Accessories | Suspension & brakes

'AP RACING' BRAKE DISC CONVERSION (For Brembro) 315 x 28 mm front, 305 x 25 mm rear AP racing groved discs, mounting bells and brackets. The existing Brembro calipers are retained. SJ082J0043 KIT 1,230.00

PUK RACING

http://freudhoefer.de/lotus/esprit/

- 2x cross-drilled 322mm diam. (!!!) high performance brake discs 322 x 28 mm

- 2x mounting adapter brackets for the original Brembo calipers

- Includes EBC Green brake pads

- Kit includes all necessary bolts and fixings

Edited September 8, 2006 by superdavelotus

[rydning]

Then you have BB Sportswagen v/Ralf Burke in Germany who sells a kit that you get German TUV approval if you are able to take the car to him. <[email protected]>

This kit can take much more heat than other disc in this tread,because of wider disc and extreme good cooling system in the front Porsche disc.He made this kit for the V8 gays in germany because they was not satisfyed with stock V8 brakes. And had some of this wild drivers had brake fade problem on public roads with the stock ithem.....

Its Has Brembo/Porche front disc 323mm x 32mm and caliper.

And rear you use the stock caliper and wider disc 305mm x 26mm

The nice thing with this Porsche disc is that its known as very hige quality.And will last much longer than Racing disc.

I have this combo now and it work on extreme hard trackday use with my 450bhp Esprit.Only that I had to use other calipers up front because of my rims.

28mm wide disc up front in the V8 is to smal if you go on hard trackdays works, but if you limit your self to some few laps at the time and do cooling laps it will be ok.

And I think he have a very competetive price when I see what this other

companys charges.At least when you can use the stock rear caliper.

Front complete kit with disc,caliper,pads,ss brakelines,brakets,++

I got a price earlier on

Edited September 8, 2006 by rydning

[andyblackman777]

Interesting about the drilling! My M3 comes standard with drilled disks surley Bmw wouldn't put something dangerous on there cars

Andy

[rydning]

I did forgot to tell about the greenstuff pads I had on my current brake upgrade.It was ok on street driving with a little low frictions.

Then I was using them on trackdays I was very dissepointed with the low pedal feel and low frictions.Then after some days I was driving it at the streets and the brakes was realy bad.

I did take it apart and the pad ticknes was ok but the friction material was loose from the iron.............

Greenstuff is for easy street driving to keep the rims nice.

NOT for track use.Or severe hard street use.

[jeff_hooper]

I have an early V8 and have bought the PNM upgrade with wider rear and larger front slotted discs, retaining the Brembo calipers. I have used PNM's suggested pads, although PNM couldn't supply them at the time so I got them elsewhere. Now on paper this should be an improvement as I have more diameter and larger brake area.

After 1,000 miles, for general road use I can tell you that when I push the middle pedal then the car stops....

I haven't had the car on the track yet which is the only place where I can really comment but I never drove the car on the track with the previous setup so what sort of comparision is that??? I never track day'd the car on the old brakes so in reality I can't really help at all.......

One comment I can say if that initial bite isn't half as good, to be honest initial bit is rubbish compared with the car before... now I know the front pads were changed by the previous owner for the cheapest shit he could buy from the local motor shop that fitted into the brembo calipers... But then ask yourself, are we interested in outstanding initial bit when slowing down from 40 mph in busy traffic? Or do we want the brakes to perform from 160MPH to 40MPH in 100 metres after 10 minutes of hammer on a track day?

My point is there is a lot of unqualified/unscientific opinion talked on LEW. People, being helpfull, make comments without any sort of proper performance bases empirical back to back tests.... Even keeping it simple there is a world of difference between the opinion of someone who is a skilled experienced long term RAC race licence holder driving an Esprit V8 around Donnington when compared with me going for a quick late night blast around Trafford Park near manchester...

Jeff

Edited September 8, 2006 by jeff_hooper

[rydning]

My point is there is a lot of unqualified/unscientific opinion talked on LEW. People, being helpfull, make comments without any sort of proper performance bases empirical back to back tests.... Even keeping it simple there is a world of difference between the opinion of someone who is a skilled experienced long term RAC race licence holder driving an Esprit V8 around Donnington when compared with me going for a quick late night blast around Trafford Park near manchester...

Jeff

LEW or LEF?

I try to put a view on different thing about brakes here because a lot of the upgrade thing you buy are not worth the money.Its realy a waste of money buying upgradet kits with the same dimention on the disc as the stock ithem on your car.And I still see companys that tell their customer the wrong things to make money only.And people who buy this only get the placebo effect.

I have used a lot of trail and error about brakes on my esprit since 2002 and now I feel that I can give good feedback of some of my experiences.

I feel that this tread is giving good info about brakes in different point of views from different people here.

I also think its stange that some of this companys doesent make a bigger brake options than they do.

On a V8 with 1450-1500kg running weight you gona need bigger than than 320x28mm or 320x32mm on hard long track use.

On Porsche cars intended for track use they offer much bigger and ticker brakes on even ligher cars with simular HP and performance,with cooling system on it like the GT3 RS.

Then you even get to the Esprit from the aftermarked companys.As I think is strange when you see the lack of brakes on most of the Esprit models.And speciality when its so easy to get higer BHP on this cars.

[joeyoesprit]

I have changed my pads fronts & back last weekend. I purchased the EBC Yellow pads and I like them alot. Lower dust and better feel than the OEM. But I only have about 500 miles on them so far and I have the AP brakes.

JoeyO

2001 V8

[jimc]

I am using AP discs 330 x 32 on the front with AP CP 2500 calipers (from memory) and 320 x 26 AP discs on the rear. This is a close to the SP 350 set up as I could get at resionable cost (about 2.5k pounds all in including the bells, pads, discs, brackets, front hoses).

Very good results. I found the standard discs were not up to the job I wanted.

Try BG Developments if you are interested.

Jim

[esprit17]

Hi Everyone, perhaps after 7 year gap it's worth polling opinion on this topic

 

Just seeing if there is new data (actual proven experience) to share on the best brake set up for those with existing Brembo brakes.

 

On my car I have new OEM brembo discs(5K on them), EBC Green stuff (they were on the car when I bought it) and Goodrich SS brake pipes and yet the car has little brake feel / travel and takes about 10meters longer to stop from 60mph than my wife's people carrier!

 

Under hard braking the front wheels lock a little bit as the ABS does it's stuff which I would say is normal as it pulses, what I would say is not normal is how slow the speed is shed. I do have old tires 2007 but good tread but cannot work out if there is a problem or not?

 

Although the car is a flying machine and the handling awesome following a recent full suspension LOTAC refresh it's the brakes which are the limiting factor as just I don't have confidence in them getting me out of trouble. This is a similar feeling to when I had a lotus M100 Elan but they were known for their P$ss poor braking ability.

 

So if anyone has any thoughts I offer the following?

1) get someone else with a brembo equipped esprit to compare

2) consider changing the pads (this seems the cheapest initial option)

3) get my brake system checked out (if so are there specialist out there) as the lotus dealer says they are ok

4) upgrade the rotors / callipers

 

I don't intent to track the car, it's just too old now but I do want to exploit the cars potential on those rare moments when everything just comes together on those Sunday drives out.

 

thanks in advance

[Alex Carter]

an interesting read i have just re done all of mine i have a 97 esprit with the brembo system the guy before me had purchased pnm groved and drilled ebc discs front and rear and hawk pads ....

honestly every time i needed to stop id have had more joy in swinging up the roof and hoping there was an on coming wind .

since that i have refaced the discs replaced every  soft brake pipe for braided and got rid of the sponge efforts replaced all the brake fluid bled the system twice and fitted yellow stuff pads all round .

 

the verdict 

 

well frankly crap i've been on the phone to ebc to ask about this and spoke to a lovely guy in the tech dept hes recommending i keep trying to bed them in as it seems 5-600 miles isnt enough yet and they wont be working right yet .

the yellow stuff pad has a red coarse layer to cut into the disc to aid in seating properly and i appear to still be in this section so i will listen to his advice and keep trying just hate the amount of dust they create its an awful lot ,

my old friends v8 gt had the same brakes as mine other than the rears seemed more like a proper piston caliper as the front version but smaller that had stock brakes and was amazing .

 

if it does not get better i will be going back to standards and sending these back watch this space. 

[billstr]

It may be that your tires are the limiting factor in your stopping distance. If the brakes are grabbing enough to engage the ABS, and the pedal feel is good, then they are bedded and gripping and that's all brakes can do. It's the tires that have to grip from there.

 

The other reason I believe this is true is that  I recently changed my tires (and wheels) from 2 year old Continental Extreme Contact to 10 year old Michelin Pilot Sport (long story) and the braking, cornering and wheel spin difference is astounding. The old Michelins can be quite scary to drive on. I'm having to be very cautious until I get new tires.

Edited May 27, 2013 by billstr

[MartinL]

All the reviews and anyone i spoke to said the Sport 350 brakes were fantastic so I was very dissapointed when I bought my car to find that they were really nothing to shout about with a hard pedal feeling like I had little servo assistance, investigation revealed "Green stuff" front pads and rears fitted with some unknown cheap looking crap. The lack of servo was traced to a faulty non return valve in the vacuum line and this greatly improved assistance and pedal feel but not the overall braking, several people reccomended various pads as "the best", eventually fitting EBC Red Stuff resulting in instant WOW......instantly brilliant brakes that are improving all the time as they bed in.

The Esprit braking system seems to be fussy about the pads used, my old S4 worked best overall with Hawk pads but the brakes were non standard with a vacuum servo and PNM big disc front conversion with Hispec calipers. For everyday use I had some cheap Volvo Amazon (I kid you not !!) soft pads that had so much instant bite that I could jump the car out of the test station rollers!!, the downside was that I had no brakes when they got hot!!