Esprit V8 conversions?

[M Blur]

Trying to get a proper handle on this V8 conversion..

Also - anyone know how large a stock 350 Checy is compared to a LS block or indeed a small block NASCAR motor..?

Who has fitted V8s into their Esprits - any pics, contacts, list of issues etc

[DBredS4]

Sounds like Blasphemy to me!

OK I'm not a puritan but it kind of defeats the performance through light weight theory and you can get some stonking power from the 4 pot that will humiliate the most respectable names. Of course it aint just the engine, it helps if the tyres suspension aero package is sorted and that doesn't even take account of the driver!!!!

I would do up the 4pot motor, get some slicks and adjustable shocks and some safety equipment

Then I'd get some serious driver training.

Probably doesn't answer your question though...

:-)

[esprithk]

M Blur,

from the look of a Chevy V8, the weight distribution seems to be very even..(as it is V-8 arrangement)

you should watch more of "Discovery: Real Time", they always use V8 in their projects, such as the show "overhaulin'"...it may be helpfull to see how the chasis/structure is reinforced...

and see the characteristic of the V8 chasis..

remember, the V-8 is very heavy...

anyway, are you considering to put in an oversized Supercharger??

[M Blur]

Sounds like Blasphemy to me!

OK I'm not a puritan but it kind of defeats the performance through light weight theory and you can get some stonking power from the 4 pot that will humiliate the most respectable names. Of course it aint just the engine, it helps if the tyres suspension aero package is sorted and that doesn't even take account of the driver!!!! I would do up the 4pot motor, get some slicks and adjustable shocks and some safety equipment Then I'd get some serious driver training.

Probably doesn't answer your question though...

:-)

Amen to that.. You clealry don't know ol John Hazzards car then; nor the other modifications I have already underway. It's the oldest surviving privateer Esprit in the UK - it's fully race prep'd.

4-pots are fine but the whole turbo, electrics thing is a bit of a minefield for racing imho - V8 power - big , lazy and strong - turn up any given Sunday.

I'm guessing my rolling chassis must be somewhere in the region of no more than 700kgs minus engine so I'm more than aware of the impact of extra weight but also what a V8 can do in a certain package - ever heard of a GT40.. racing used to always be about engines and chassis - through history the 2 have been interchangeable - my car is a race hack - has been rebuilt many times so I see no sacrilidge - it's pretty removed from a stock car in all but looks anyway. The Esprit chassis is actually perfect for a big V8 - long wheelbase, wide track, rear traction will be immense tho a heavier lump will accentuate any pendulum fro the weight balance.

I'm also exploring a fully forged Garry Kemp engine with a Stage4 WC cermaic bearing turbo; tho bringing turbos, engines etc together is a royal pain the posterior./

This has been debated - wasn't looking for blessings but tks - now back to the point.

does anyone know if the basic dimensions of a small block will fit and mate to the Renault(bearing in mind need for an adaptor plate to the bellhousing)./?

[silverfrost]

How about a v6 cant remember the name of the chap but theres someone on here who has converted a stevens to run a ford v6, at least you will have the info on fitting the gearbox and other bits and bobs,

regards danny

[karluk29]

throw in a cossie, it can run 500-700bhp and the conversion is 13k if i remember

[esprithk]

How about a v6 cant remember the name of the chap but theres someone on here who has converted a stevens to run a ford v6, at least you will have the info on fitting the gearbox and other bits and bobs,

regards danny

I already suggested the V6 Turbo from the Buick GNX in another post of V8 conversion in here.

I think Mr Blur really wants a V8...

[WayneB]

This web site gives dimensions of most of the American V8 Engines presently available

I like the Lotus designed LT5 all aluminium Chevrolet V8 myself

I believe Lotus had installed one of these in a Test Mule Esprit a while ago (mid 80s?)

However, its hard to find and expensive !

The "normal" Chev V8 is probably one of the most relyable and idiot proof powerful engines on the planet

Edited September 8, 2006 by WayneB

[karluk29]

^^^that a vette engine then out of a c5,,,not a engine person,,,but i know there damn fast

[DBredS4]

apologies if I sounded a bit 'Archbishop of Canterbury' but I reckon the lower weight of the 4 banger would serve you better (my 2p). I havent raced at all but done sprints and track days and the advantages of the smaller cars such as Elises and Caterhams in the corners are so significant I just couldn't shut up. I was overtaken on the outside at Llandow like I was standing still by the Caterfield boys. Just so heavy compared to them. Good fun though.

Here's hoping you get the Kemp engine

regards

d

4-pots are fine but the whole turbo, electrics thing is a bit of a minefield for racing imho - V8 power - big , lazy and strong - turn up any given Sunday.

I'm guessing my rolling chassis must be somewhere in the region of no more than 700kgs minus engine so I'm more than aware of the impact of extra weight but also what a V8 can do in a certain package - ever heard of a GT40.. racing used to always be about engines and chassis - through history the 2 have been interchangeable - my car is a race hack - has been rebuilt many times so I see no sacrilidge - it's pretty removed from a stock car in all but looks anyway. The Esprit chassis is actually perfect for a big V8 - long wheelbase, wide track, rear traction will be immense tho a heavier lump will accentuate any pendulum fro the weight balance.

I'm also exploring a fully forged Garry Kemp engine with a Stage4 WC cermaic bearing turbo; tho bringing turbos, engines etc together is a royal pain the posterior./

[andyblackman777]

This is an interesting subject i thought about the LS1 engine in an esprit there is a bloke doing it somewhere i found him on the internet while looking into the idea i rekon you could get a v reliable 450 bhp motor with no expensive servicing etc etc and the LS1 is all ally so not heavy!!

cheers Andy

[M Blur]

I'm racing wih the Loti lightweights next year including an Audi turbo Motorsport Elise and various Type R engined mini-monsters. The car will have full aero package - runs on Leda race coil overs, fully caged, slicks. alcon race 4-spots all round.. list goes on and on. Car weighs no more than 970-980kgs all in - a bit different to a stock car - an iron block would add a cpl of undred pounds to that - a the main drawback but an all alloy NASCAR lump wouldn't.. Unfortunately an all-alloy LS seems out of my budget but open to offers...

Cornering speed is all about balance - The Esprit has come adavantages in that department and the GT2s were some of the fastest cars on the bends - all about getting a good balance, grip and downforce. B)

For a 350 - 383 stroker I've been given the following measurements by BritishAmerican..

length: 29.5 inches

Top width: 20 inches

Height - Sump to top of air filter: 26 inches. - Using Torker ll manifold and three inch filter element.

Bell Housing 16 inches across & 16 inches from top to bottom. It is also no wider than the rear of the engine.

Rear of engine @ bellhousing 16.5 inches

This is an interesting subject i thought about the LS1 engine in an esprit there is a bloke doing it somewhere i found him on the internet while looking into the idea i rekon you could get a v reliable 450 bhp motor with no expensive servicing etc etc and the LS1 is all ally so not heavy!!

cheers Andy

Did he encounter any spacial problems Andy - main thing is will it fit - ? i.e. enough for space for engine, UN1 and adaptor plate?

The racing 383 stroker would be really nice if heavy.. 480bhp/480lbft.. B)

my friends dad is ex-NASCAR so he's asking him for his 650bhp small block... titanium internals etc etc..

I already suggested the V6 Turbo from the Buick GNX in another post of V8 conversion in here.

I think Mr Blur really wants a V8...

If I can get one cheaply, it gives the power I want, is happy to be subjected to circuit rpms (few engines are..) and I can mate it to the UN1 or it comes with an aletrnate tranny then I'm open to sugegstions... 450bhp is really the minimum I'll entertain to make it worthwhile..

Edited September 10, 2006 by M Blur

[rydning]

Hello Jon

Its pretty good space in the Esprit`s engine bay and i think you can put what ever V8 you like in there.You have to do some/alot custom building anyway with engine swaps.

I know one in Norway that have a 700bhp nascar engine in a GT40 replica and it doesent sound like a US V8 at all. Its a race engine and the sound is unbeliable good.You are gone psyke out the mine on your competitors with the sound only

Ferrari engines sounds cheap compare to that orcestra,F1 engines is to much screaming.

And normal 350`s engines are very compact but heavy.

I hope you stay away from this dull stock us V8`s.And go for the nascar engine it might gona be a handfull to drive with all that power in your light car.If you get good handling and downforce its gona be a damn fast car.I WOULD LOVE TO TEST THAT COMBO

Take a look on the GT40 forum its a lot of very competent people there.+ a lot of info to what you are asking about here.

And adapters/bellhouse are easy to get. http://www.gtoengineering.co.uk/gtor/page1.htm

I have a Lexus 4,0 V8 here i did think to put in my car with 2 turbos....But I need to get my car more torsen stiff before I do someting like that.+ a lot of other mods.+ its hard to get someting like this roadlegal....

Edited September 9, 2006 by rydning

[islandbloke]

FWIW my mechanic pal was moaning recently that he'd measured up a Porsche Boxster engine and box (from the car in the next bay to mine) to see if they could be squeezed into Lottie.

Not without significant modification was the conclusion. Of course, on a full race car like yours, that may not be so much of a problem??

[esprithk]

This web site gives dimensions of most of the American V8 Engines presently available

I like the Lotus designed LT5 all aluminium Chevrolet V8 myself

I believe Lotus had installed one of these in a Test Mule Esprit a while ago (mid 80s?)

However, its hard to find and expensive !

The "normal" Chev V8 is probably one of the most relyable and idiot proof powerful engines on the planet

haha...if I find this ZR1 engine, I will keep it in the Corvette ZR1.

[M Blur]

Well, I spoke to my m8's dad on Saturday who now live sout in San Antonio way - he's ex-NASCAR and raced for over 20 yrs over in the US. He's got 2 engines - both 358ci, titanium internals, $75,000 build. One is a 'strong engine' and about 475bhp but will run and run.. But he reckons I should for the other one, which revs to over 9000rpm @ 650bhp @ 7500rpm on a 4-barrel or 575bhp on a 2 barrel on the higher octane stuff - retard abd pull it back to maybe 8500rpm (use MSD) and 550-600bhp to reduce top end wear but still plenty of power band to play with. Waiting back on specs etc but it sounds awesome. Torque pushed up the rev range to give smoother power delivery (about 410lbft at 7000rpm) so can really drive out with lots of revs, less wheelspin and less gear changes.. - free revving, light, will be modded to road circuits - so different sump etc. Prices quoted are for 'family' and very reasonable. B)

Gonna use special small comp clutch and maybe m8 to an uprated UN1. Hopefully talk to a garage next week about installation...

Take a look on the GT40 forum its a lot of very competent people there.+ a lot of info to what you are asking about here.

And adapters/bellhouse are easy to get. http://www.gtoengineering.co.uk/gtor/page1.htm

yep - tks Robin - been speaking to Kev @ GTO - as I'll need to uprate the Un1 internals anyway.

End result could be Gt1-baiting... in a straightline only - can;t compete with it's level of development tho I've said to Miek S it'd b great to get the cars together wiht a few other 'extreme' Esprits.

[esprithk]

I don't understand this V8 conversion idea anymore.

It seems that you are becoming obsess of the high HP figure (600HP+)

For all the works, it may be better to just switch car and drive a Dodge Viper.

They were LeMans Champion.

more winning history of the Dodge Viper:

In 2005, the Chrysler-sponsored SRT won the luxury class (and took sixth place, overall) with a slightly-modified Chrysler 300C SRT8 driven by SRT employees David Zelkowski (powertrain engineer) and Erich Heuschele (dynamics specialist). Heuschele said, "We beat nine of 10 Porsches, seven of nine Corvettes, all eight BMW M cars, both Acura NSX-R supercharged racecars, both Superperformance Cobra Daytona Coupes, all five WRX STis/Mitsubishi Evolutions, and the Lotus Elise." Second place overall was taken by a Hennessey 650 Dodge Viper; fourth place overall by a Dodge Ram 1500 tube-frame racecar that won the SUV class; and eight place was taken by Dan Seeley's Dodge SRT4 with Mopar Stage 3 engine and suspension kits (which won the mid-priced class).

You cannot beat the magic of a 8000cc V-10....cheer!

[andyblackman777]

Here is the link to pne underway

www.artandautomotiveclassic.com/Lotus.htm

cheers Andy

[M Blur]

STR-10 - it's a blimming truck engine - gr8 for 24 hrs - no comparison to a small block 358 imho. The attraction is drivability and high rpm rather than peak power.. turbo cars can often hit big power but don't always have great drivavility on track tho I'm not sayign a well tuined 910 wouldn't be great but chance at a special engine is just one of those opportunities... I fully expect some kickback but my favourite time in auto racing was the modsports era where anything went.. in racing - you have a chassi and an engine - the 910 is a road engine that can be made to go well on track, this 358 is a $75K race engine - every nut n bolt.

But much to work through before I decide -meanwhile Garry K is still costing a race engine for my budget - Loti prices ain't cheap.

I don't understand this V8 conversion idea anymore.

It seems that you are becoming obsess of the high HP figure (600HP+)

For all the works, it may be better to just switch car and drive a Dodge Viper.

They were LeMans Champion.

more winning history of the Dodge Viper:

In 2005, the Chrysler-sponsored SRT won the luxury class (and took sixth place, overall) with a slightly-modified Chrysler 300C SRT8 driven by SRT employees David Zelkowski (powertrain engineer) and Erich Heuschele (dynamics specialist). Heuschele said, "We beat nine of 10 Porsches, seven of nine Corvettes, all eight BMW M cars, both Acura NSX-R supercharged racecars, both Superperformance Cobra Daytona Coupes, all five WRX STis/Mitsubishi Evolutions, and the Lotus Elise." Second place overall was taken by a Hennessey 650 Dodge Viper; fourth place overall by a Dodge Ram 1500 tube-frame racecar that won the SUV class; and eight place was taken by Dan Seeley's Dodge SRT4 with Mopar Stage 3 engine and suspension kits (which won the mid-priced class).

You cannot beat the magic of a 8000cc V-10....cheer!

How OT can you get...

You wanna talk Vipers - go start a thread..

Here is the link to pne underway

www.artandautomotiveclassic.com/Lotus.htm

cheers Andy

Cheers Andy - appreciated

[esprithk]

sorry, M Blurs.

not trying to be off topic. (just give a suggestion)

because I see that a Lotus is getting more and more "not being a Lotus"

basically, it seems like the idea is just use the Lotus chasis and look as a kit car.

I don't see the point, and think it is better to drive something that's original as a V8 car.

Sorry to make you upset.

[LW Elise]

I don't understand this V8 conversion idea anymore.

It seems that you are becoming obsess of the high HP figure (600HP+)

For all the works, it may be better to just switch car and drive a Dodge Viper.

They were LeMans Champion.

more winning history of the Dodge Viper:

In 2005, the Chrysler-sponsored SRT won the luxury class (and took sixth place, overall) with a slightly-modified Chrysler 300C SRT8 driven by SRT employees David Zelkowski (powertrain engineer) and Erich Heuschele (dynamics specialist). Heuschele said, "We beat nine of 10 Porsches, seven of nine Corvettes, all eight BMW M cars, both Acura NSX-R supercharged racecars, both Superperformance Cobra Daytona Coupes, all five WRX STis/Mitsubishi Evolutions, and the Lotus Elise." Second place overall was taken by a Hennessey 650 Dodge Viper; fourth place overall by a Dodge Ram 1500 tube-frame racecar that won the SUV class; and eight place was taken by Dan Seeley's Dodge SRT4 with Mopar Stage 3 engine and suspension kits (which won the mid-priced class).

You cannot beat the magic of a 8000cc V-10....cheer!

I owned a 96 Viper and a 2003 Viper. A Viper does not a Lotus make. My Viper engine was about as long as my current Elise ( ok I'm exaggerating) and having a large, heavy engines does not seem like something the performance through light weight philosophy would embrace. There are plenty of cars with V-10s, or large V-8s, solving the horsepower to weight equation with more horsepower. When I first started looking at an Esprit as a potential alternative to a GT3, one concern I had was that they both weigh so much more than my Elise, that I might lose a lot of the fun for some of the livability. Weight is the enemy in my opinion. Lotus has always had elegant solutions. I hope they don't join the parade as is being rumored with the Audi V-10. And I hope we can find better ways to enjoy older Esprits than putting heavy metal in them.

So........... can I get a V-8 into a 69 Jag XKE? (Just kidding)

[rydning]

I don't understand this V8 conversion idea anymore.

It seems that you are becoming obsess of the high HP figure (600HP+)

For all the works, it may be better to just switch car and drive a Dodge Viper.

They were LeMans Champion.

more winning history of the Dodge Viper:

In 2005, the Chrysler-sponsored SRT won the luxury class (and took sixth place, overall) with a slightly-modified Chrysler 300C SRT8 driven by SRT employees David Zelkowski (powertrain engineer) and Erich Heuschele (dynamics specialist). Heuschele said, "We beat nine of 10 Porsches, seven of nine Corvettes, all eight BMW M cars, both Acura NSX-R supercharged racecars, both Superperformance Cobra Daytona Coupes, all five WRX STis/Mitsubishi Evolutions, and the Lotus Elise." Second place overall was taken by a Hennessey 650 Dodge Viper; fourth place overall by a Dodge Ram 1500 tube-frame racecar that won the SUV class; and eight place was taken by Dan Seeley's Dodge SRT4 with Mopar Stage 3 engine and suspension kits (which won the mid-priced class).

You cannot beat the magic of a 8000cc V-10....cheer!

Building a car for 24hour race and 20min racinng is 2 different things.

Most of the teams are private teams and the dodge team have factory support.

Cant realy compare this then.But I know that this viper is very good in short sprint GT racing also so they must have done a very good job when they developed this race car.

As I have sayd the Viper is a race car developed with facory money.

And m blur is a private person who wants to race.

[esprithk]

As I have sayd the Viper is a race car developed with facory money.

And m blur is a private person who wants to race.

thx for comments. I just don't understand this.

if an investor (private or sponsorship) start a race team to run races.

isn't it obvious to choose an suitable car to represent the team (example, a Lotus Esprit)

when the vehicle has "possibly" reached its full potential, isn't it make more sense to choose other "higher performance" vehicles to represent the team??

In Asia, I don't see, for example Macau Grand prix, private racing team to put a Toyota engine in a BMW to race. People simply change the entire car (get new sponsorship or something) **of course, finance support is main concern.

**you know, this is not the movie "Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift" which they put a Nissan Silvia engine+transmission in a classic Ford Mustang.

sorry, I don't understand the logic of it.

Lotus Esprit's body and chasis is designed to suit the Lotus 4cyliner and 8cylinder. and of course, Lotus already makes the best balance of the vehicle.

I don't know if the car will respond the same when a Chevy V8 is installed to it (heavier weight, different performance character)

NOTE: the Chevy V8 302 or 350 cu. in. + a Chevy transmission....it won't be like that transmission you had.

the gear ratio is not like the Esprit which has a long 3rd gear, they are very short. (don't expect something from off-market supplier to be like a Corvette Z6 performance character...it won't)

you may lose advantage because of just the transmission setup

**look at how many Camaro and Corvette actually did make big wins and you know the truth...(they don't win much)

I grew up in Texas, USA...and I was always with friends of Buick GNX, Pontiac Firebird, Chevy Camaro, and even the Corvette (and yes, I am into those HOT ROD thing)....**you won't expect a chinese guy who love V-8 muscle.....I am no "rice" kid...I grew up with Camaros...(my most favour car of all time)

**so I think it make more sense to choose a Corvette C6 or something (of V8)..

well, may be there is "financial issue" (too expensive to change the entire car??)

but anyway, M. Blur does not need to answer this.

just my 2cents...

sorry to get off of the topic. (but I still think Viper can do short races very good, too. I saw Viper winning "drifting" races too....so even it is heavy, it does not mean it cannot respond quickly..you just get to see or drive one to know how to work it)

Edited September 12, 2006 by esprithk

[rydning]

As you say over there: money talks

It is almost possible to get any car to go fast with the right people and or money.

The nice thing with the nascar engine m blur talks about is that is known to last severe use...

You are running them on your ovals with trottle down for several hours.On a road track the average rpm is much lower.

I gess he wants what he gets the most for his money.

Did you know that Lotus had to swap from their 3,5 twin turbos V8 to a chevy lump because of the race regulations gave the turbo engines to much weight penalty and restrictions?

I have read some of the race rules for different supercar series (GT racing) and it looks like it is almost best to use big displacement us engines with only 2 valves pr cylinder in all this type of racing.

[M Blur]

that would be my throughts also Robin - a high and free revving NASCAR with alloy dart block and heads, moroso, titanium internals etc is not your common garden variety 350. It shouldn't be overly heavy and the whole mid engined layout with wide tarck and long wheelbase should make it a far better handler. The fact the weight is near the rear axle line should give great traction and the higher torque curve will reduce initial traction problems you get with many V8s. The engine will happily rev to 9000rom but we'll peg it back slightly for reliability and peak power is around 7500rpm.

Switching engines and chassis is engrained into motorsport history. Lotus themselves always used to try things out themselves.

I've seen Vipers on track and I'm never impressed with them through the slower stuff - high speed stuff is all aero and they have a logn wheelbase and lots of mechanical grip. Surprisingly good in the wet tho.

The Esprit will be closer to Mosler and Ultima types.. tho signifincantly less funded, developed... but I rweckon it'll be bloody fast.

Gearing will be offset by the high rpm I can run in each gear. the gears feel pretty short when in a tuned 910 car.. the turbo smacks you right up to the next change very quickly. I'll probably use the UN1 with an adaptor plate and uprated internals.

I have no problem with the OT debate - tho Id' have hoped for more specific info on the install rather than the auto-moralities or considered efficiences. Enjoyable nonetheless.

Edited September 12, 2006 by M Blur