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Guest Mutley00

Alunox SS manifolds

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Hi all, 

There has been discussion and disagreement on a previous thread about how

the turbo is supported when used with the Alunox manifold.. In that thread after

derogatory comments had been made, I tried to assure customers that the

compressor to charge cooler connection and the turbine to rear system provided

all the  necessary support needed.. 

Although the charge cooler and rear system are on rubber mounts their

configuration when connected with the turbo is surprisingly sturdy.. 

When i first assessed the p/type of the new manifold this area was looked into. My

conclusions after some tests were the turbo's weight was supported in such a way

that it also provided a suitable platform to attach the secondary/collector section of

the manifold. The turbo was sufficiently supported as not to be a burden on the

manifold and also allow for the expansion movement required.      

One forum member insisted that this was totally wrong and these mounts were not

capable of carrying the turbo's weight..As a result I have since seen other comments

referring to tubular manifold carrying the turbo weight..

So I thought i would try to illustrate some points so people could judge for themselves.

 

In pic 1&2.  you can see my over sized turbo weighing 8.2 kg comfortably supported by

the attachments as above without the manifold or any other pipework attached.

post-10519-0-95266000-1421872258.jpg

 

post-10519-0-53949100-1421872275.jpg

 

In pic 3 I have suspended the whole Alunox manifold from the turbine housing to show

how it can also support the manifolds weight without deflecting its mounted position. 

post-10519-0-20845700-1421872882.jpg

 

However there are other things to consider, such as shock load from hitting say a pot

hole, also vibration from rough roads. Not that we like our Esprit's to experience that

sort of treatment.  But we need to be sure that the turbo is mounted in such a way that

any residual shock that may reach that area in those circumstances can be supported.

This also applies to aggressive driving.

The way I tested this was to apply an unnatural load to the turbo while mounted as

previous and look for unacceptable deflection from the original position.

To try and illustrate my findings I suspended some weight from the turbo. I did not

have specific weights, so used what I had to hand , 2 fly wheels, 2 clutch covers, oh

and lets throw in a crankshaft for good measure.

Total supported weight including the turbo 48.6kg  approx 107lbs

post-10519-0-16360000-1421875067.jpg

 

post-10519-0-12731000-1421875085.jpg

 

As you can see it passed that test and carried that weight with no significant 

deflection.

 

Hopefully this has demonstrated the actual situation and helped clear up any

confusion with regards to how the turbo is supported when used with the

Alunox manifold.

 

NB. This is an information thread on my findings relating to how the turbo is

supported when fitted to the Alunox manifold ....nothing more. 

 

 

 

 

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

 

NB. This is an information thread on my findings relating to how the turbo is

supported when fitted to the Alunox manifold ....nothing more. 

 

But its not fitted to the Alunox manifold?

 

Im not sure what you are trying to show here? The Turbo pipe and your great big huge exhaust pipe can support the turbo on its own? Most people will have a section of flexi pipe in their exhaust pipe and a small dia. but longer rubber air/turbo inlet. You think this will be strong enough to hold the turbo?

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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That case is not generally how it ends up in practice though.  When you bolt the manifold to the head, it is as rigidly as possible, and then the turbo gets bolted to the manifold, as rigidly as possible, and then the hose is tightened basically at rest.  Meaning the hose is not actually carrying any load (ideally), which means the manifold sees the entire weight of the turbo as it begins to heat and the steel alloy looses ~60% of it's strength.  Then once the steel deforms... then the rubber hose begins to take the weight.

 

The rubber hangers on the exhaust are also not designed to take weight instantly, they would deform and allow a large moment with that much weight at that kind of distance.

 

I've seen the rubber mounts for the chargecooler that were sheared due to boost pressure and the fact that the pipe work didn't have a good lip, and the hose clamps were slippery on the oily silicone tubing.  I've had my silicone hose pop out of the t-bolt hose clamp many times, until I finally bracketed the hose clamps together so they couldn't slip towards or away from each other.

 

This is precisely why many previous exhaust manifolds, and brackets, have cracked (steel and iron)


Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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But its not fitted to the Alunox manifold?

 

Im not sure what you are trying to show here? The Turbo pipe and your great big huge exhaust pipe can support the turbo on its own? Most people will have a section of flexi pipe in their exhaust pipe and a small dia. but longer rubber air/turbo inlet. You think this will be strong enough to hold the turbo?

 

 

Hi Scott,  

I did this as a new thread to set aside from the conflict in the other, as a result it may have been a bit vague.

I will try to address the points you made.

What i was trying to illustrate was that the turbo does not wobble around on these mounts as was implied in the other thread.

If i had the Alunox manifold fitted at the time I would not have  been able to illustrated this support so clearly.

The standard  turbo Esprit that the Alunox manifold was designed for does not have a flexi section in the system, It would not

be recommended to fit one to an Esprit that has.  The diameter of the system will make little difference.

The rubber pipe you refer to on the compressor  is the same length  as standard on mine, just a bit stretched on the comp end.

There is no real difference in how mine is laid out to that of a standard Esprit.

hope that helps explain a little..

 

Travis

I understand what you are saying but the Alunox header unlike the standard system and others was designed to be flexible. This

was to reduce the stresses a rigid system incurs under expansion which is a major cause of fatigue cracking..

Because of this flexibility factor the question was raised about the influence the turbo weight would have when suspended on the

manifold . It was suggested that the turbo was mostly reliant on the manifold for its support which could cause problems on a

flexible system like the Alunox ..  

It had not been illustrated before exactly how supporting these other mounts were, which was a consideration in the design of

the Alunox headers.. but had become a matter of contention in the other thread.

Because of the flexible nature of this system it will be necessary to insure all the mounts are in good serviced condition to help

prevent situation that you have experienced,,

 

In general.

The Alunox  five piece manifold with its expansion joints allowing flexibility in the system is a new direction for the Esprit but 

has been used with great success in many other applications. There will always be some concerns over a new product and

how it is fitted . The main one with this was how independently supported the turbo was so as not to lean on the manifold.

The point of this thread was just to show that even though the standard turbo is circa 6 kg its mounting configuration

without the manifold attached can suspend at least 48 kg  which is 8 x its weight. without significant deflection..

Hopefully this will have addressed this concern.. 

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Hi Scott,  

 

The standard  turbo Esprit that the Alunox manifold was designed for does not have a flexi section in the system, It would not

be recommended to fit one to an Esprit that has. 

 

So if you fit the Alunox manifold you have to get another turbo to silencer exhaust section but without the flexi part?

 

So you are in theory using that fixed exhaust section and the rubber inlet to support the turbo so the manifold does not need to?

 

Cheers

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Dave,

Thanks for posting up and attempting to put minds at rest about turbo support. The issue I think is that previously the turbo was supported by the heavy cast manifold and and people are having issue believing without it the turbo will simply not be supported sufficiently. I don't agree of course and feel this is 1970-1980's production engineering as opposed to modern development and approach. Sparky has had his fitted for some time now and still remarks how much better the car feels.

Trevor.


I'll get around to it at some point.

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Actually Im not sure what this recent update adds to this debate.

 

I think the only thing that will be decisive is how they continue to perform over the next couple of years.

 

So far so good. Unless anyone knows any different?

 

Anything else will just be guess work so perhaps we should just leave it there for the time being....please

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Well there you go. Sparky's opinion with the unit fitted and running (and knows his stuff) has to count for a lot.

 

Thanks for your input  :thumbup:

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Actually Im not sure what this recent update adds to this debate.

 

I think the only thing that will be decisive is how they continue to perform over the next couple of years.

 

So far so good. Unless anyone knows any different?

 

Anything else will just be guess work so perhaps we should just leave it there for the time being....please

 

Buddsy

Buddsy,

 

I quite agree and time running these is the proof and of course being installed in a professional manner is key to longevity.

 

Trevor.

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I'll get around to it at some point.

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I'm sure Trev can do you a favourable rate


1982 DeLorean DMC 12 #16327, 1999 Lotus Elise, 1998 Lotus Esprit GT3 #2272, 2011 Lotus Evora S, 2013 Lotus Exige S,2016 Lotus Evora 400

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I'll chime in on one a bit later. For now I have plenty of cooler Work ;)

But, as it seems to last, I find the alunox manifold interesting for sure.

 

Cheers,

Jacques.


Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Let me know when you want one, they are sitting on the shelf.

Trevor.

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I'll get around to it at some point.

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Maybe right before the belt fest? (If I can talk sover someone to brng it in the plane?)

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.


Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Why is all the nice stuff in the UK? :(


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Cos we kicked all the bad stuff out years ago.  :P

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British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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:cry:

 

I don't like you anymore.....


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Just to re-iterate, Trevsked made up the initial group buy of these manifolds by purchasing 2 himself, which he didn't need but did for the sake of the others in the group buy. 

 

If you want to buy a manifold, please do the right thing and purchase this brand new item from Trevor before approaching Alunox. It's the same as the one you'll get from them, but available right now, on the shelf and ready to go and will save Trevor being the best part of £3k out of pocket.


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Thanks for the support and making that clear Bibs.

 

Trevor.


I'll get around to it at some point.

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So Bibs, naturally we support each other, and I bought one off Trevsked, now waiting for installation.

 

I have a few questions regarding this, as I want to avoid making stree on a part or some parts.

 

- Does someone have a propper installation manual for this kit? And the last updated bracket?

 

- Have anyone polished it ?

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.


Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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I always polish mine.

Oh. You're talking about the manifold. Never mind.

:getmecoat:


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Jacques, I found that it was not easy to fit, even with the engine out. If one pipe was only slightly out of line, then it wouldn't go straight on over the studs.
 
After speaking to Leon at Alunox, I dismantled it, and smeared some moly grease around before reassembling it. I mocked it up on the bench as best I could first, then offered it up, No.1 cylinder first. I put the first nut on, then the next, and used a copper/hide mallet to tap the headers gently around into position. It wasn't a quick process, but once I'd got it perfectly aligned and over the studs, I could pull the whole assembly on and off, with no bother.

 

As for polishing it, that's your choice, but as no-one else will ever see it, and even if I did it will look like shit in a short space of time, I didn't bother.


Margate Exotics.

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