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jimmy p

What Fuel do people run?

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Well my evora is due another tank of juice, the first went quickly due to the five hour trip home from Scotland after picking it up last Saturday. Used standard Shell on that occasion after being put off using V-power Nitro by Craig from Murray MC. So choice is Tesco 99ron Momentum, carry on with Shell standard which seemed fine or BP Ultimate.  What do you all use and have you encountered any problems with any??? 

Edited by jimmy p

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I used to use plain Shell unleaded. Tried V-Power which made a difference to the power. So I use that now.

 

Don't know what V-Power Nitro is. Same stuff as here in Oz, just a different name? What's the issue?


All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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They have recently changed V-power to V-power nitro+ here, I was told there have been a few problems with this new fuel setting off sensor warning lights, don't know anymore just what I was told. Craig does know what he is talking about though so I will trust him

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Personally from no knowledge just my own feeling etc. I would avoid supermarket fuels. I would just use premium from the big sellers. Avoid Shell if that chap says so. 

 

Ive just been putting premium in my Turbo Esprit. Just my own feeling to do with the addition of ethanols etc.

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Oh, I have been using Shell V-Power Nitro+ exclusively.

 

What are the issues?


I have no tried any fuel additive but have been thinking of it for some time.

These 3 options are on Opie Oils, all by Millers

They are

Ethanol protection

Ethanol protection & lead replacement

Ethanol protection & lead replacement & octane boost

 

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/vsearch.aspx?SearchTerm=ethanol

 

Thoughts?


"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Over three years, 16K miles, always used Shell V-Power and since it became available more recently, the new Nitro version.  Mine is not a daily driver so price is not significant and I like to think that mpg is a little better anyway. I've not researched the Nitro business on the (naïve?) assumption that Shell know what they are doing, vis-a-vis modern vehicles anyway.

 

I have my own enhanced Radium intake and the Lotus Sports exhaust fitted and the increased full power is used on occasion (road only); I have never had any kind of warning light.

 

From a brief scan of the link it seems all three Miller products mentioned above are aimed at classic/historic vehicles, presumably with previous generations of materials used for pipes and connectors.  If Lotus or Toyota believed that only specific types of petrol should be used, surely this would be well defined and documented, rather than being "grapevine information"?

 

Of course I'm eager to learn whatever basis for concerns might exist.

Edited by mdavies

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Elise S - (s/c) handbook reccomends 98 ron, usually Shell V Power Nitro, no warning light issues.

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Ah, just seen that we are in the Evora section. My fault. I thought it was a more general question re fuels. Sorry.


"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Simon I may have put you off the scent as I replied in the Evora section. I think the ethanol additive are more required for the RON 95 grade. I still think your thoughts are valuable though.

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Always used Shell V-Power and more recently the Nitro Plus with no issues. Ditto previously on my Elise SC.

Whilst my Evora S will happily run on 95RON standard unleaded I'd be down on power compared to 98RON as recommended in the handbook. Not sure what is recommended for the NA.

Personally I steer clear of supermarket premium unleaded as you can't always be sure how they've achieved the higher RON.

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I put all sorts in mine and can't say I've noticed any difference. Mostly it was std unleaded but more recently I've put super unleaded in. It should run on 98 but it runs fine on any type.

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You'll get more boost from the supercharger with higher RON. The S should always run on 98 or above for max performance. 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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What proof is there that supermarket fuel is inferior? Do you really think it comes from a different refinery/terminal?  It all has to fit certain standards.

 

Yes different RON, but then again the higher RON stuff degrades quicker.


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Professionals built the Titanic

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I thought it was something along the lines of as the supermarkets don't own their own refinery they kinda buy bin ends and mix/blend to their own formula. I could be talking out of my backside and perpetuation the urban myth?

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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I'm sure a supermarket spending hundreds of millions on fuel each year won't be getting 'bin-ends' mate!


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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No Im sure you right. Weaseling their way in and getting every business there is to be had. Music, banking, cars, petrol insurance....sorry thats a whole nother rant

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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The difference, as I understand it, between supermarket fuel and oil companies themselves (BP/Shell etc) is that they add things such as detergents to the fuel to keep your valvetrain clean etc. 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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What proof is there that supermarket fuel is inferior? Do you really think it comes from a different refinery/terminal?  It all has to fit certain standards.

 

Yes different RON, but then again the higher RON stuff degrades quicker.

Remember this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_UK_petrol_contamination ? Only affected supermarket fuel. Evo did a review several years ago where they couldn't include results for supermarket 95RON because - by the supermarkets' own admissions - they used different refineries and blends so weren't consistent across the country or week to week. They do of course meet the minimum BS standards for 95; minimum being the key point.

Agree the majority of UK fuel comes from the same base blends but each fuel company or supermarket creates their own variant when their tanker fills up at the refinery, depending on what additives they include. Tesco green fuel and Shell V-Power are the only fuels blended at specific refineries exclusively for those companies, so should be more consistent batch to batch. Shell say that there is some degradation on the higher RON fuels over time, but worst case it's down 1RON. Not sure what the other firms have said about theirs.

As Bibs says, higher RON fuel is more relevant for forced induction engines (higher RON fuel is more knock resistant not more "powerful") and generally needs an adaptive engine management system to take advantage of it. The Hethel folks advised that on the Evora S it can take the ECU a couple of hundred miles to adapt to 98RON fuel after a period running on 95, so if you stick a single tank of V-Power in you may not notice much difference until near the end of the tank.

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To add more colour on the above, and happy to be corrected where wrong but I work in the oil biz and not at the rocky end, the fact is that in the UK, fuel in each service station comes from all over.  The days of Shell fuel from a shell refinery and BP from a BP refinery etc is long gone.

 

It is quite possible that Exxon crude oil from Africa ended up in a BP refinery in Rotterdam that produced some of the  components that can be used to make gasoline (usually a mix of butane/reformate/Cat cracked gasoline/Naphtha) that all end up in a blending terminal somewhere in the UK and then in a Shell service station or a supermarket etc.  It is entirely possible that one blending terminal supplies jo-shmo supermarket and your favourite shell garage. 

 

While gasoline specs are tight from a legal usage point of view, from the refineries position they rarely try and produce exact specs as refineries work to minimise the "octane giveaway" of producing over spec products.  Refineries naturally produce all different products (as listed above) and fuel for actual use gets created through blending of the above in the ratio that is most economic on the day. 

 

Eg on a given day

 

Butane = 100 octane is ~$400/mt

Cat Cracked gasoline = 91 octane and $700/mt

Naphtha = 61 Octane and ~$650mt

 

What proportion of the above best meets all the required Uk Gasoline fuel specs (about ~20 different parameters, Octane and RON are but two) at the cheapest price.

 

 The extras that get you V-power nitro+ or Excellium or whatever additives are done through in-tank blending and the base fuel can come from anywhere.

 

I have only ever used super unleaded 98 in my evora and avoided the super turbo plus fuels as a waste with an N/A engine.  I would no qualms about using a supermerket as the local market in one region will likely be supplied by the same place.  Eg Asda 98 is likely the same molecules as Shell 98 in a given area.

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You're the 1800th member of TLF who works in the oil game and has an Evora. Don't suppose you have a holiday cottage in Aberdeen? :hrhr:


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Good info Russell. 

So, as has been said by others, it may depend on what store you place on the additives.


"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Thanks for cutting to the chase for us all!Really interesting. In your last sentence you say locally the 98 is going to be the same except Shell etc will tank mix in some other cleaners and the like.

 

So the big question is...Is the stuff they put in worth it or is it better not to have them in or doesn't it make any difference? I guess this question will be better aimed at an engine development engineer?

 

Buddsy


 

"Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777

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Good to read some firm facts.  I seem to have gathered that one of the "features" of Shell V Power Nitro is a friction reducer.  Presumably that would work as well in an NA as an S?  Or am I really wasting my money!

 

A while back I asked my local Sainsbury where they acquired their petrol. (For my DD).  They said BP - who have a station of their own just around the corner and those two are the only ones near so it would make sense, as said above. 

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