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What Fuel do people run?


jimmy p

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Well my evora is due another tank of juice, the first went quickly due to the five hour trip home from Scotland after picking it up last Saturday. Used standard Shell on that occasion after being put off using V-power Nitro by Craig from Murray MC. So choice is Tesco 99ron Momentum, carry on with Shell standard which seemed fine or BP Ultimate.  What do you all use and have you encountered any problems with any??? 

Edited by jimmy p
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I used to use plain Shell unleaded. Tried V-Power which made a difference to the power. So I use that now.

 

Don't know what V-Power Nitro is. Same stuff as here in Oz, just a different name? What's the issue?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

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They have recently changed V-power to V-power nitro+ here, I was told there have been a few problems with this new fuel setting off sensor warning lights, don't know anymore just what I was told. Craig does know what he is talking about though so I will trust him

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Oh, I have been using Shell V-Power Nitro+ exclusively.

 

What are the issues?


I have no tried any fuel additive but have been thinking of it for some time.

These 3 options are on Opie Oils, all by Millers

They are

Ethanol protection

Ethanol protection & lead replacement

Ethanol protection & lead replacement & octane boost

 

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/vsearch.aspx?SearchTerm=ethanol

 

Thoughts?

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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Over three years, 16K miles, always used Shell V-Power and since it became available more recently, the new Nitro version.  Mine is not a daily driver so price is not significant and I like to think that mpg is a little better anyway. I've not researched the Nitro business on the (naïve?) assumption that Shell know what they are doing, vis-a-vis modern vehicles anyway.

 

I have my own enhanced Radium intake and the Lotus Sports exhaust fitted and the increased full power is used on occasion (road only); I have never had any kind of warning light.

 

From a brief scan of the link it seems all three Miller products mentioned above are aimed at classic/historic vehicles, presumably with previous generations of materials used for pipes and connectors.  If Lotus or Toyota believed that only specific types of petrol should be used, surely this would be well defined and documented, rather than being "grapevine information"?

 

Of course I'm eager to learn whatever basis for concerns might exist.

Edited by mdavies
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Always used Shell V-Power and more recently the Nitro Plus with no issues. Ditto previously on my Elise SC.

Whilst my Evora S will happily run on 95RON standard unleaded I'd be down on power compared to 98RON as recommended in the handbook. Not sure what is recommended for the NA.

Personally I steer clear of supermarket premium unleaded as you can't always be sure how they've achieved the higher RON.

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You'll get more boost from the supercharger with higher RON. The S should always run on 98 or above for max performance. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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What proof is there that supermarket fuel is inferior? Do you really think it comes from a different refinery/terminal?  It all has to fit certain standards.

 

Yes different RON, but then again the higher RON stuff degrades quicker.

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I'm sure a supermarket spending hundreds of millions on fuel each year won't be getting 'bin-ends' mate!

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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The difference, as I understand it, between supermarket fuel and oil companies themselves (BP/Shell etc) is that they add things such as detergents to the fuel to keep your valvetrain clean etc. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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What proof is there that supermarket fuel is inferior? Do you really think it comes from a different refinery/terminal?  It all has to fit certain standards.

 

Yes different RON, but then again the higher RON stuff degrades quicker.

Remember this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_UK_petrol_contamination ? Only affected supermarket fuel. Evo did a review several years ago where they couldn't include results for supermarket 95RON because - by the supermarkets' own admissions - they used different refineries and blends so weren't consistent across the country or week to week. They do of course meet the minimum BS standards for 95; minimum being the key point.

Agree the majority of UK fuel comes from the same base blends but each fuel company or supermarket creates their own variant when their tanker fills up at the refinery, depending on what additives they include. Tesco green fuel and Shell V-Power are the only fuels blended at specific refineries exclusively for those companies, so should be more consistent batch to batch. Shell say that there is some degradation on the higher RON fuels over time, but worst case it's down 1RON. Not sure what the other firms have said about theirs.

As Bibs says, higher RON fuel is more relevant for forced induction engines (higher RON fuel is more knock resistant not more "powerful") and generally needs an adaptive engine management system to take advantage of it. The Hethel folks advised that on the Evora S it can take the ECU a couple of hundred miles to adapt to 98RON fuel after a period running on 95, so if you stick a single tank of V-Power in you may not notice much difference until near the end of the tank.

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To add more colour on the above, and happy to be corrected where wrong but I work in the oil biz and not at the rocky end, the fact is that in the UK, fuel in each service station comes from all over.  The days of Shell fuel from a shell refinery and BP from a BP refinery etc is long gone.

 

It is quite possible that Exxon crude oil from Africa ended up in a BP refinery in Rotterdam that produced some of the  components that can be used to make gasoline (usually a mix of butane/reformate/Cat cracked gasoline/Naphtha) that all end up in a blending terminal somewhere in the UK and then in a Shell service station or a supermarket etc.  It is entirely possible that one blending terminal supplies jo-shmo supermarket and your favourite shell garage. 

 

While gasoline specs are tight from a legal usage point of view, from the refineries position they rarely try and produce exact specs as refineries work to minimise the "octane giveaway" of producing over spec products.  Refineries naturally produce all different products (as listed above) and fuel for actual use gets created through blending of the above in the ratio that is most economic on the day. 

 

Eg on a given day

 

Butane = 100 octane is ~$400/mt

Cat Cracked gasoline = 91 octane and $700/mt

Naphtha = 61 Octane and ~$650mt

 

What proportion of the above best meets all the required Uk Gasoline fuel specs (about ~20 different parameters, Octane and RON are but two) at the cheapest price.

 

 The extras that get you V-power nitro+ or Excellium or whatever additives are done through in-tank blending and the base fuel can come from anywhere.

 

I have only ever used super unleaded 98 in my evora and avoided the super turbo plus fuels as a waste with an N/A engine.  I would no qualms about using a supermerket as the local market in one region will likely be supplied by the same place.  Eg Asda 98 is likely the same molecules as Shell 98 in a given area.

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You're the 1800th member of TLF who works in the oil game and has an Evora. Don't suppose you have a holiday cottage in Aberdeen? :hrhr:

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Good to read some firm facts.  I seem to have gathered that one of the "features" of Shell V Power Nitro is a friction reducer.  Presumably that would work as well in an NA as an S?  Or am I really wasting my money!

 

A while back I asked my local Sainsbury where they acquired their petrol. (For my DD).  They said BP - who have a station of their own just around the corner and those two are the only ones near so it would make sense, as said above. 

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To add more colour on the above, and happy to be corrected where wrong but I work in the oil biz and not at the rocky end, the fact is that in the UK, fuel in each service station comes from all over.  The days of Shell fuel from a shell refinery and BP from a BP refinery etc is long gone.

 

Agree with everything else you've said Russell but my understanding is that Shell V-Power isn't manufactured and distributed in the same way as other fuels, including other Shell fuels. Per my earlier post, V-Power comes direct from one refinery (Stanlow) to all UK Shell fuel stations. One of the Porsche owners on Pistonheads works on its production.
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Agree with everything else you've said Russell but my understanding is that Shell V-Power isn't manufactured and distributed in the same way as other fuels, including other Shell fuels. Per my earlier post, V-Power comes direct from one refinery (Stanlow) to all UK Shell fuel stations. One of the Porsche owners on Pistonheads works on its production.

 

Ah, good to know - although Shell sold this plant to Essar a while back (indian refining group) but they must have kept some blending infrastucture here for manufacture of Vpower.  Now we just need an engine specialist to tell us whats best for NA / S evoras! anyone...?

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Have to agree with LogicSnap.

I fly representatives of the oil industry to Northern Africa and that exact point has been suggested to me more than once.

95 works just fine in my NA Evora, I use BP as there on my way to work and they made me money when their share price plummeted after the explosion and I went share shopping!! You gotta give what you take!!!

Cheers,

A ;-)

P.S The main dealer I bought my car said 95 was fine.

Edited by auRouge
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If we can line up 2x NAs and 2x Ss from somewhere in the south east I'll see if TDI at Thurrock will run a dyno session for us. My strong hunch is that 2x NAs run on 95 and 97/98/99 RON will be about the same power & torque curves but 2x Ss will be noticeably different between UL and SUL. Anyone up for it?

1. TomE - Evora S, SUL (Shell V-Power)

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But    but    but,that would stop all the speculation and , well, put the issue to bed.

 

can we do this with the UFO thread too? :huh:

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"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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