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CarlC

V8 vs S4 Weight

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Just doing some suspension investigation and queried the unladen weight differences between S4, S350 and V8GT/SE. According to the LEW models pages there is bugger all difference. All around 1320KG ? :lol:

My understanding to date has been that one of the reasons for the S4 0-60 time being so close to the V8's was the lower weight of the 4pot engine against the v8. This however doesnt appear to be the case.

So are the weights right ? and if so were does the v8 make up the weight difference to account for the much heavier v8 engine ? or is there not that much difference in the weight of the V8 against the 4pot ?

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Hi Carl.

According to my handbook, kerb weights are

GT3 1229kg,

S4S 1339kg,

V8 1380 kg.

Weight at front is only 5kg different between S4S and V8 (V8 lighter!), with V8 weight at the rear being 46kg heavier. Anyone got any idea what 40kg weight penalty is on a 0-60 time?

I thought some of the difference could be down to the gearing, but again according to the handbook, the V8 is actually lower geared in 1st and 2nd (5.4 vs 5.7 mph/1000rpm in first, 8.9 vs 9.4 in 2nd).

I have seen quite a variation in V8 quoted 0-60 times in different magazine tests, ranging from 4.3 to 5 seconds.

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So the S350 is 80kg lighter than the standard V8 (1999/2000 vintage). And thats another mystery. As I recall when Lotus launched the S350, they didn't claim a quicker 0-60 time, despite the weight saving and remapped ECU for better torque.

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The Lotus quoted figure have tendencies to be on the conservative side. It is the road test results from the Motoriing press that are more meaningful.

The Sport350 when tested by ? (can

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cant find any record of a 4.1 time

Taken from British car magazines Sport 350 road tests

Auto Express 3/9 March 1999 0-60 4.4secs

Evo Jan 2005 0-60 4.3secs

Evo March 1999 0-60 4.3 secs

Autocar 24 Feb1999 0-60 4.7 secs

Autocar 13 jan 1999 0-60 4.7 sec (wet surface)

Car Feb 1999 0-62 4.6sec

Top Gear mag Feb 1999 0-62 4.6secs

Edited by esprit350

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Taken from Jeremy Walton's book "Lotus Esprit the official story" P.203

Standard V8 0-60 4.5s

Sport 350 0-60 3.9s (apparently an Autocar figure p.168) and 9.8s for 0-100mph

Sport 350 50-70mph in 3rd = 2.6.sec (2 seconds faster than a BMW M3)

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Autocar also timed the V8 GT at 4.1 to 60 and 9.5 to 100. This would have been in the Gold car which had no air con or armchair seats or spare wheel etc etc.

I'm fairly convinced by these results, we used to have a printout on the showroom wall of a '96 spec V8 (!!) that Ian (old boss) managed to squeeze a 4.17 to 60 out of. Gotta feel sorry for that car :unsure:

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Carl,

So of the model pages use data from roadtest, which is unreliable at best. Also some of the weights are kerb and some dry, which can make a big difference.

All the correct weights can be found on the LEW Calendar. These were double checked with the factory before printing.

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Thanks Kato,

Got the big calendar at home so Ill check it out, as the desktop calander I have at work doesnt have it on.

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Kato, presumably the calendar 0-60 times are also 'reliable official' figures from Lotus. So now I'm really confused.

Take December's S4s, insert V8 and convert to S350, add extra 50bhp and 5lbft of torque and remove 60kg and the 0-60 increases by 0.1 sec as quoted in November.

0-60 of 4.7 for an S350 seems very slow cf other figures quoted.

Another example. Take September's Turbo, and convert to August's GT3. Add 25bhp, similar torque, remove 168kg and the 0-60 increases by 0.2s!

Lotus used to have a reputation for providing the journos with special cars for road tests - blueprinted engines etc to get maximum marketing value out of the measured performance figures. Perhaps in these days of litigation, they are being more honest, or even conservative in their quoted performance.

There's only one way to settle this - let's visit an airfield.

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Right, assuming the calander is correct, it backs up my origonal query...

V8 GT - 1325Kg - 4.8 secs

V8 02 - 1380Kg - 4.8 secs

SE - 1305Kg - 4.7 secs

S4 - 1339Kg - 4.7 secs

A V8 GT assuming there is no Aircon I suppose is lighter than the S4 4pot. :unsure:

In other words a Fat Person driving an S4 and a thin person driving the V8GT would make them virtually the same wight apart from one key difference... one is a v8, and it aint mine.

So what is the weight difference between the v8 and the 4pot ? Surely the CC cant make up for the weight difference between a 4pot and a V8 ?

Edited by CarlC

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From what I've heard most of the 0-60 time is down to gearing, not bhp or weight. Obviously it makes a difference, but the gearing is critical. Also the V8's have restricted boost in the lower gears, so the bhp is lower!

Don't believe any conspiracy theories!

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Thanks for the info Kato.

Its not really the 0-60 Im interested in but more how Lotus managed to get what appears to be a V8 to weigh the same as the 4pot. I now understand the the gearing allows the 4pot to perform 0-60 to similar times as the V8 but clearly it has nothing to do with a lighter weight car.

So is the v8 engine just a very similar wieght to the 910 with CC setup or have other wieght savings been made to the V8 and not the 4pots to keep the wieght down ?

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Talking just about weight or gearing might be missing a more significant factor affecting acceleration times. Dare I mention the big differences ambient air temp and humidity can make to turbo engine power outputs?

The same car tested on a cold winter day and then again on a hot summer day six months later, could easily result in a good few 10ths difference from what I have read. Never mind damp/dry roads and the grip offered by the road surface cold or warm tyres etc.

Given these factors and the differing drivers/magazines policies on testing practice. I could easily imagine 0.5sec differences being quiet normal with the same car. The most academically honest answer I guess would be to say the Esprit V8 can do 0-60 in anywhere from 4.1 to 4.7secs.

Which is slightly more time than the life expectancy of a typical V8's UN-1 gearbox!

Jeff

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The weight of the V8-GT is similar to the S4 as it has the lighter seats, no air-con, no wing, which is basically the difference between it and the V8-SE.

If you look at the weight for the S350, it's only 80kg lighter than the V8-SE and that has light weight body and wheels. Plus no spare. They only saved about 25kg from the V8-GT. It takes quite a bit of time and money to save weight a little weight.

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Right, get the scales out! A fully dressed (inc turbos, but minus fluids) V8 weighs 210kgs.

Anyone got a 9** series lying around to pop onto the bathroom scales?

Engines aside, there can't be a lot of difference in weight between, say an S4S and a '98 spec V8 SE.....can there?

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With me driving, I recorded ( with an accelerometer thing in the car ) :

0-60 4.7

0-100 10.2

I thought that was quite good considerin I only got one chance at it.

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Good result Adrian for a one off attempt. I bet with some practice you could shave at least 2 or 3 hundreds of that. B)

Well thats the question then - what is the weight of the 910 engine?

Ill have a guess that there not going to be much in it. maybe 30Kg lighter ?

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I hate to bring up an old thread, but I get asked why is the 4cyl car as fast to 60 than the V8 at a lot of car shows.. Because Lotus limited boost to 4-5psi in 1st-3rd gear.. once 3rd gear is past 5,500 rpm it will boost to 9.5-10psi and full boost through the entire rpm band in 4-5th.. this was done to help the gear box survive.. try running a 4cyl car and a V8 from a 70roll in 3rd.. the V8 will be a spec in the distance in very short time... and if equipped with the yellow or red code ECU from Lotus peaking at 17psi, the V8 will walk away from a lot of today's exotics, V10 R8's, 458's, Vipers.. 

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