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Prices Soaring


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21 minutes ago, pete said:

Really? Seems like BBC propaganda to me. Think the market is just settling down after a period of overheating now interest rates are starting to rise

Think what you like @pete but it's my opinion, not the BBCs. You're right, the market reached a recent peak over the last 12-18 months, so naturally things slow down. But things rarely operate in a vacuum, and other major factors have an effect. The uncertainty of Brexit being one of them. Simples.

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Classic cars prices in general have been falling. Ferrari 308 GTS prices have dropped by a third.  And if you’ve been watching the classifieds Esprit prices, they are dropping too.  Esprits up at £35k and dropping to £27k and still not selling.

After Brexit I’m sure confidence will return.

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Brexit has created uncertainty, especially amongst those that looked upon certain cars or marques as investments. Given the level of ‘service’ industry that has reshuffled its business centres around ROE in a post Brexit time hopefully the silly prices or access to cars will become more attainable to enthusiasts. 

Black n gold

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There was a famous American economist called Herb Stein who is remembered for saying "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." :rofl:

It doesn't matter whether it's property, stock markets, art, coins or classic cars it still applies.

Edited by Paul Coleman

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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4 hours ago, Paul Coleman said:

There was a famous American economist called Herb Stein who is remembered for saying "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." :rofl:

It doesn't matter whether it's property, stock markets, art, coins or classic cars it still applies.

I think Newton got there before him - what goes up must come Down! 

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I work in the Classic car business via my business. Prices have slowed up a bit and the biggest dealer JD Classics has gone into administration, this was to do with a court case over miss selling. This has affected the confidence in cars to an extent, but this is the very top end of the market. At the moment cars are capital gains tax free, but I have heard this may be changing. This will affect the investment market, as people are putting money into them to avoid tax. This may actually bring up prices at the lower to middle segment, if the top end drops, also with the change in modern cars people are keen to buy into their youth, hence XR3, 205GTi etc going up.

Two of the cars I have been involved with have sold for huge amounts, ex Paul McCartney DB5 went for £1.3 million and ex Goldeneye DB5 went for £1.9 million. But that is the upper end..

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Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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It doesn't surprise me that CGT is being considered on classic cars, and I suspect the many other forms of investment.

Certainly global classic car prices at the very top end of the market, apart from special sales, have fallen in recent years (18 months), as reported within the last 6 months. However only top end auction sales were monitored.

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31 minutes ago, Fridge said:

It doesn't surprise me that CGT is being considered on classic cars, and I suspect the many other forms of investment.

Certainly global classic car prices at the very top end of the market, apart from special sales, have fallen in recent years (18 months), as reported within the last 6 months. However only top end auction sales were monitored.

Fully agree with you. I cant see the bubble lasting for ever, it burst in the 90's

Amateurs built the Ark

Professionals built the Titanic

"I haven't ridden in cars pulled by cows before" "Bullocks, Mr.Belcher" "No, I haven't, honestly"

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  • Gold FFM

Top end. What about the recent hike in M100 and Lotus Excel prices. Restoration projects now hitting the 4k mark for something half decent, whereas 12 months ago it would have been half that. Even a breaker is now valued at 2.5k. All good for the lesser know models in my opinion as they have been under valued for so long. The M100 is a cracking little car.

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4 minutes ago, johnpwalsh said:

Top end. What about the recent hike in M100 and Lotus Excel prices. Restoration projects now hitting the 4k mark for something half decent, whereas 12 months ago it would have been half that. Even a breaker is now valued at 2.5k. All good for the lesser know models in my opinion as they have been under valued for so long. The M100 is a cracking little car.

That's very true John. And as a percentage of the original value M100 prices have rocketed over the past 12 months. However, apart from the DB5 and other specials mentioned above, none of the Lotus cars are in the upper echelons I mentioned. Those being the very high end auctions which are monitored.

I think the lower end of the classic car market will bounce back quicker IMO. Certainly if economic stability returns. With the rarest and most desirable cars always gaining in value first.

The Coutts report I refer too was reported about a year ago. Obviously the slide in upper Esprit prices and slowness of the UK market in general is the aftershock being felt further down the scale, due in the main part by other factors mentioned previously.

http://www.internationalinvestment.net/products/investments/coutts-value-classic-cars-drops-2016-annual-return-still-14-2-since-2005/

https://moneyweek.com/473884/classic-car-sales-stall/

 

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Yes David, still good for the investor. Just a bit hard on Joe Bloggs who is trying to get his first classic. LotusRescue is finding prices are jumping with more and more people pulling abandoned projects out of the woodwork thinking they are going to get sky high prices. I pulled one out of a hedge the other week with a completely collapsed chassis and the owner still thinking it was worth 4k. I offered £400 to take it away and the guy just laughed at me and gave me a mouthful. The interior was like a botanic garden, no glass left and the doors falling off, the gearbox out in bits and half an engine. Not even 50 quid in scrap.

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Yes, that attitude is common. Mostly from folks who are behind the curve and late to the party. Prices are still reasonable, just slow. Mainly due to folk asking too high a price for the current market. They need to get real. Or hang on.

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  • Gold FFM

Once we have “crashed” out if the EU @Mark Blanchard I’d get in quick. Itll be disasterous for the first hour of trading - but once the truth hammers home it’ll change 

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Only here once

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Yes but I'll have an S4s for £18k for those few disastrous minutes, before the truth hammers home.

This is from the guy that went on holiday to California in 2002, after 9/11 and we had the place to ourselves.

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12 hours ago, Mark Blanchard said:

Yes but I'll have an S4s for £18k for those few disastrous minutes, before the truth hammers home.

 

In your dreams🤩

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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I doubt that the Brexit affects much of the Esprit prices, if You consider export sales to the mainland Europe. 

There are simply not much of the market for the cars with steering on the wrong side. Getting the spare parts here might get more expensive though. 

 

"Older I get, faster I was"

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45 minutes ago, Ekku said:

I doubt that the Brexit affects much of the Esprit prices, if You consider export sales to the mainland Europe. 

There are simply not much of the market for the cars with steering on the wrong side. Getting the spare parts here might get more expensive though. 

 

I think you missed the point of the Brexit comments @Ekku 

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Yes, I understood that You are concerned about the classic car prizes dropping because of the uncertain economical situation caused by Brexit.

I am glad that You are not reading what the media in here writes about it. Bloodthirsty politicians and press wants to make it as costly as possible to You Brits, bacause You dare to leave this wonderfull Euro-socialist system behind.

It is interesting that the Guardian and Daily mail seems to be the only source that our media relies when talking about Britain.

I am sure that there are different opinions available there too?

About the Esprit prizes, they seem to be more reasonable than here, but You must have the biggest market of the brand there, so it might be vunerable. In our market the best classic cars are usually sold abroad to the Germany or Sweden, because the prize level is better there. Applies to the motorcycles too.

PS. I think that Your Isles are such a big market close to the mainland Europe that It would be foolish to not trade and do it with reasonable terms. With germans the agreement is likely to be easy, but the french are difficult.

 

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"Older I get, faster I was"

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