Kimbers Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'm not Scottish but my wife is half Scottish so we have been following the details of the Scottish Independence debate closely. I was wondering what our members views were? I think it is a matter for all people of the UK, not just Scots, as it would have an impact on all of us. I love Scotland and would love to retire to the highlands. However I just can't see Scotland being independent. For a start, no matter how much smoke the SNP blow up peoples arses I can't see them earning enough to balance the books! Add in decreasing North Sea gas and Oil reserves and it looks like it's not do-able. Now call me bitter if you want, but if it was me, I'd say "You are truly on your own" if they do vote for independence. No! You can't have the Pound. No! We won't give you a percentage of our GDP every year as a severance package. No! You can't pick and choose what to be independent on. If you want a Scottish defence force raise one with your own money, if you want a tax system design one, you can't use UK Customs and Excise. No, you can't use our membership of the EU as a starting point to EU membership. And No! If you suddenly realise you can't go alone we aren't going to bail you out! I have loads of Scottish mates and none of them want an independent Scotland, what do you think? Quote Possibly save your life. Check out this website.http://everyman-campaign.org/ Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Shouldn't there be some sort of fight? Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'll get the blue paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbers Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 So what's best, GB or Scotland....there's only one way to find out! Quote Possibly save your life. Check out this website.http://everyman-campaign.org/ Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Salmond is a clown. A self important clown at that and a clown who is convinced of his own grandiose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Cannon Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Can someone enlighten me as to when this recent struggle for independence started? (don't say 1684). I mean it's not like Ireland where where it became obvious when they started blowing up our pubs. From the little I know about "independence" it sounds like feminism, i.e. very selective. Also, as the parent of 2 kids about to enter University the division of financial responsibility between Scotland and the rest of the of a supposedly "United" Kingdom really, really grinds. If Scotland do vote to go it alone i say we start filling in the missing bits of Hadrian's Wall Quote In the garage no-one can hear you scream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgerley Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Don't get me started.... The really serious issues are now getting the detailed analysis warranted by highly qualified/experienced people. On just about every one of the independence arguments there is a compete lacks of any coherence whatsoever. Salmon's response - play the man, its a all a Tory/Labour/EU plot. Drives me up the wall as he stiffles all serious debate. And he is so damn pompous and full of himself. Despite everything, including his trumpeted White Paper on independence (which the Electoral Commission have suggested is simply a beefed up SNP manifesto and answers none of the serious questions at all) the polls haven't shifted - let's hope it remains 2:1 in favour of the Union come September. I've lived here for 18 years and will probably retire to the Highlands. Its a wonderful country and absolutely should remain in the UK. Edited February 6, 2014 by hedgerley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Arm wrestle? Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket63 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Do they get to keep Andy Murray for a yes vote? Quote Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!! Lotus Espirt Turbo S3 Lotus Esprit S4 Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotusLeftLotusRight Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 As I see it the SNP's raison d' être is Independence for Scotland, so I guess they believe that if you vote for them in existing elections, then you'll also be voting for an independent Scotland. The fact that the SNP is now the largest Party in the Scottish Parliament was always going to end with the referendum they desire. HOWEVER: if, as seems likely, the Scottish public vote against Independence, then does that not automatically mean the end of the SNP and all it stands for? Surely Salmond and the SNP's position at the head of Scottish politics becomes untenable? It's like the Lib-Dems in Westminster. They never really expected to get into Government and now they are (in coalition), they will be destroyed at the next General Election. Both Parties have got what they craved, but now face annihilation having achieved it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgerley Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Couldn't bear to touch him... LooseCannon - it started with the formation of the SNP back in 1934 with the declared intent of achieving an independent Scotland. To calm them down Labour legislated for the Devolved Assembly but that was never going to be enough. The SNP majority in the 2011 election gave Salmon the mandate he needed. At least he is allowing us a vote on the matter. But if keeping the Pound through a Currency Union means the Bank of England is the lender of last resort (also setting interest rates, borrowing limits and some taxes in Scotland, so how much fiscal autonomy would Salmon actually have?) this would mean the rUK would have to bail Scotland out if it went bankrupt. So shouldn't rUK get a vote as well? One of many unresolved questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comem47 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Not being close to it I can't make any other observation than what often happens here. That is, follow the money!!! Often the people behind a movement/project or whatever have a vested financial interest (or way to skim money once they empower themselves) The rest of the people be damned!!! -Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Mysterae Posted February 6, 2014 Gold FFM Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Being a Scot myself and living in England I'm not sure of my entitlement to vote . Speaking to friends and family it's not the biggest priority in their lives and many couldn't give crap. It seems like a one man crusade; it's not just Alex's surname that sounds a bit fishy. Quote Signature not working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainskea Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirling_Villeneuve Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Indeed... I envy Scotland greatly! I wish down here in England we could gain independence from Cameron and his bunch of s... Quote Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgerley Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Given a choice between Salmon/Swinney and Cameron/Osborne its a no brainer, even more so now the recovery is well under way (based on the stats - I realise the 'style' of recovery and who is benefiting is a whole other political debate which I would rather not get into!!!) To put it bluntly Stirling, I'd rather have a toff than a twat in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirling_Villeneuve Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Well with Cameron you get a toff, a twat... and a total thrown in for good measure! Quote Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLStrange Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Being from the colonies I have zero knowledge or input to this but I'd have to ask myself "What would Sean Connery do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirling_Villeneuve Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sean Connery's a member of the Scottish National Party... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7261161.stm Quote Currently having an illicit affair with another marque, be back in the fold one day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 If you asked me years ago I would have said a very definite stay. Now I simply don't care as long as what ever the result is they shut up about it. Utter indifference would be the best way to describe my opinion now. And If in 50 years time they decide the vanity exercise of King Alex has been a bit of a mistake then it should be up to the English , Welsh and if still there the Northern Irish to decide if to let them back or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sean Connery's a member of the Scottish National Party... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7261161.stm How can you take his views seriously on Scotland when he is a tax exile from Scotland? One thing you can be sure of, independence is not going to reduce taxes (unless there is a clause to reduce taxes for ex 007s in the manifesto) Michael makes a great point - vote no then Salmond has to resign and we will no longer have his annoying presence on TV & Radio. Best argument I have heard yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainskea Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Because I haven't been exposed to all of the arguments, debates and (seemingly the biggest swaying factor) the individual personalities involved - I feel somewhat immune to everything and consider I sit on pure-ish principals. That is, independence represents a state of mind, an ideal that you are self governed and not by another. It is something you can only feel when you don't have it. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 God save the Queen Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbers Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Sterling, whilst I haven't voted Tory since they were in last, I find myself with total indifference to ALL political parties. The SNP as well. However I don't think you should see the SNP as a good alternative. They are appealing to the more base feelings and thoughts of the people. Independence because of a dislike of the English and greed "We will be be so much better off......Why should we be run by a bunch of English toffs in London....."etc etc. As I said my wife is half Scottish, I am a mix of English, Welsh and Irish. We are as "British" as you can get and I think we should stay British, including Scotland, the home of the Brave! Quote Possibly save your life. Check out this website.http://everyman-campaign.org/ Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainskea Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 There's me on my soap box, wind up my kilt and Bibs yells that out from the crowd, it could have been a Python scene. Ha ha. You know Tony, once you consumed more Scotch than your body weight, you become one too ladie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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