Scottish Independence

[hedgerley 454]

He really does live in la-la land. Just about the whole of the UK and the international banking and financial sector have said this is a really, really bad idea. Many have already made plans and secured offices south of the Border should Scotland vote Yes. The EU, NATO, IMF etc.have said, umpteen times and various forums, that Scotland will take years to re-integrate itself with the international community once it leaves the UK. The hiatus in the interim will be a disaster for the economy and his grand plans for a 'fairer society' will come to nought, replaced with swinging spending cuts and higher taxes as he tries to balance the books.

 

His position on a Currency Union is farcical - how can a foreign country (rUK) be expected to act as lender of last resort? The arrogance of the man to say that the rUK tax-payer doesn't have a say in the matter is contemptible, especially if he walks away from his share of the national debt (which means punitive interest rates when he has to go to the international bond market for money)

 

But all these people are wrong, Alex is right and they are all bluffing. So that's OK.

 

Anyhow, we have just sold our house and I have actually moved my banking, business and personal, out of RBS. We were planning to do downsize this year anyway but in the event of a Yes vote - which I still believe won't happen, despite the polls - the capital flight (mine) has already started! 

 

And don't get me started on the cyber-nats. The online abuse and vitriol has ramped up in recent weeks. If it appeared on the street (and it has started to, witness the abuse Jim Murphy has been getting) they would be arrested for a breach of the peace, but they hide behind false Facebook identities so can't be identified.

 

This is a great country and I have no desire to leave, but I must admit to considering my options - even after a No vote this country will be divided. Let's not forget there are families in South Yorkshire who are still not speaking to relatives because they broke the miners strike. I can see something similar happening here. And all to satisfy Salmond's hubris.

 

Phew, now pass me the Tylenol 

[softlips 19]

^^^ I agree this has opened up many divisions in the population over the border which will take years to heal whatever the result.

[makkyh 60]

As someone who has no Scottish ancestry but very keen on the Union I have read this thread with interest. 

 

I do as a member of the United Kingdom feel disenfranchised with the process which I feel cannot be right.

 

I would also observe that the argument on here, and I appreciate it is 'NO' biased, seems to have far more science than sentiment behind it. From an objective view point, the Oil appears to be an old and reliable sore which is the hook to hang Mr Salmonds mischief making.

[red vtec 203]

I'm quite happy to see Scotland go if that's what they vote, but if they go they cut all ties and no ladder back to us if it all goes wrong. Salmond seems to want to cherry pick the good bits only.

I've only followed bits of it but with the currency I understand they can use sterling, they could use bananas if they want but if the Bank of England won't back it, then it's only in name.

I know for a fact that they have already started moving our subs back to England with a new base on the cards.

If they do go does anyone know how it works with who takes charge of them? Does Salmond become PM/president? Or do they have to vote on this?

[Buddsy 1,656]

Two reasons I kinda what to see them go.

 

1, it will shake things up a bit then we can get rid of the queen.

 

2, I think England is too London based. Maybe it will open up the discussion what it is we should do with the rest of the county that's not London?

 

Buddsy

[iainskea 30]

Too much of 'they' and 'us' used around here. I sometimes feel I'm standing in an English Pub.

[Kimbers 1,905]

Hahaha,  and what is the forum but a group of friends talking about things that interest them It's what makes us a community Iain.

 

As for them and us, Like I have stressed, My Granny was 100% Welsh, My Grandad Half Irish, my wife is half Scottish (and my kids are confused). I am proud of mine and my wife's Celtic heritage and have recently gone with a large Celtic Cross tattoo on my shoulder and down my arm.

 

BUT, I don't want to see Scotland go independent because I consider it an integral part of the UK. It's not "them and us" because "Them" is my wife, my kids and to a certain degree myself. 

[softlips 19]

We have two likely scenarios now,

1) The Nos win and the Yes campaigners moan forevermore how good it could have been.

2) The Yes vote wins and they complain how good it would have been if the UK government had split things more fairly.

Either way sadly, I don't think we'll be hearing the last of Alex Salmond!

[hedgerley 454]

Its your round then Kimbers....

 

I still don't get the independence that Salmond is pitching for. I've read his White Paper which was supposed to answer all the questions but it doesn't, not by a long way. A few examples and bear in mind Scotland would be a foreign country - 

 

- Keep the pound in a currency union, which means

• The Bank of England to remain lender of last resort (which btw rules out EU membership as London a foreign country. But Alex says no, the entire EU legal establishment is wrong)
• rUK would have to bale Scotland out if the Scottish economy tanked
• Westminster would continue to dictate monetary, fiscal and borrowing policy for Scotland and would no doubt worry about the 95% of the population that is rUK, not the 5% in a foreign country
• Protections for pensions, banking etc remain in place, underwritten by the Bank of England (rUK taxpayer)

- In the medium term welfare payments and other social fund obligations would continue to be paid by Westminster as now. And he says rUK must contribute to the costs of the new systems Scotland needs once all the population records have been transferred.

 

And a bunch of other things that rUK will continue to fund (EU rebate for example) Basically, the rUK taxpayers to underwrite his ambition, with none of the downsides. And he has the gall to say that rUK have no say in the independence debate. 

 

He says all this will give Scotland the economic levers it needs to do better on its own. Derrr.

 

- Keep the Queen

- Continue to build rUK DoD warships (but you are a foreign country Alex)

- Remain part of the EU under current UK terms (but you are foreign country Alex)

- Remain part of NATO under current UK terms but ditch Trident. Sorry Alex NATO is a nuclear alliance

- Have an open border policy considerably more relaxed than current or post independence rUK conditions.

- And then say there will be no border controls between rUK and Scotland. Given the current geo-political climate there is no way immigrants, terrorists or otherwise, will be allowed to arrive in rUK via the back door. Westminster will insist on some kind of control.

 

The list of nonsense goes on. The vast majority of the conditions proposed in the White Paper for an independent Scotland are simply NOT in Salmond's gift to give They will rely on years of negotiation with national and international organisations and even then he won't get everything what he wants. In the interim Scotland will be in limbo, run out of cash, cut public spending, raise taxes and most big businesses will do a runner (banks would be forced out anyway under EU legislation - they have to be domiciled where the bulk of their business is)

 

And this will deliver a fairer Scotland? 

 

As to his own position Salmond is currently First Minister and he will remain so until the 2016 election in Scotland. The Scottish people will then vote for their own Government and Prime Minister, which may or may not be SNP led. After all, if independence is achieved why do we need the SNP - that's why they exist. I guess the upside is we may get rid of Salmond for good as what is the point of him post independence.

 

This will also mean the the Scottish MPs at Westminster will have to trek back to Edinburgh. And given they are all Labour bar one, rUK will forever be Tory-led as Labour has relied on its Scottish MPs to prop it up for years.

 

Vote with your head and its a big fat NO. Vote with your (Brave) heart and it's a Yes, we'll muddle through....

[Chillidoggy 4,461]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11070773/Alex-Salmonds-currency-plan-B-incompatible-with-EU.html

 

Interesting.

[Advantage 910]

The Queen and Prince Philip were in Glasgow where they bumped into Alex Salmond

 

HMQ: How nice to see you Mr Salmond.

 

AS: Nice to see you Ma’am. Now, what are we going to call Scotland when we win Independence..? How about calling it a Kingdom, and then I’ll be a King?

 

HMQ glances at Philip: No, we don’t like that.

 

AS: How about an Empire, and I'll be Emperor?

 

HMQ: No.

 

AS: Alright, so how about calling it a Principality, and then I’ll be a Prince?

 

Philip: No Mr Salmond, I suggest we call it a Country and you can carry on as you are.

[arbell9 21]

Goldman Sachs don't seem to chuffed on the idea of independence

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11072312/Scottish-Yes-vote-could-cause-eurozone-style-currency-crisis-Goldman-Sachs-warns.html

[Kimbers 1,905]

Hahaha Advantage, brilliant!

[mdw 283]

I used to think no, then when it all started I was indifferent and now the more I read and think about it the more  happy I am to say bye bye.  Sadly I think its going to be close and there will be a lot of agro which ever  way it goes.  

[iainskea 30]

I'll buy the next round, although not sure what currency I'll use

[iainskea 30]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11070773/Alex-Salmonds-currency-plan-B-incompatible-with-EU.html

Interesting.

"Former" commissioner...

[Al. 294]

Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything really on this Forum topic but I am actually going to be in Englandshire all that week on a Course with 3 other Jock colleagues.  (We all have proxy votes to vote No with btw) 

 

What is the Course?  An Explosives handling Course!!  (in a quarry not far from Salisbury)

 

Now where is Houses of Parliament again?  Guy Fawkes II The movie!!

[Kimbers 1,905]

Awww closer to me and we could go out!

 

Infact, lets sort that some time! We can discuss Celtic things and eat and drink far too much!

[Advantage 910]

Bloody foreigners coming over here stealing our jobs...

[Mysterae 270]

Bloody foreigners coming over here stealing our jobs...

 

And your women

[Advantage 910]

You can keep them.

[red vtec 203]

I'm now being told that as an Englishman, that if Scotland goes it will affect me, if that's the case why are we not bloody well consulted on it!!!

 

My view is if they go they go, if they stay they stay and not with any of this divulged power.

[sailorbob 271]

My view is if they go they go, if they stay they stay and not with any of this divulged power.

 

If they do vote yes my sympathies will be for those who voted no.

[red vtec 203]

 

If they do vote yes my sympathies will be for those who voted no.

Indeed I can see a lot of trouble which ever way it goes, it will divide communities and families. Salmond and the Jimmy Krankie sidekick are fire mongers.

[Bibs 11,654]

A recent poll said that the 'yes' vote is favourite, companies have lost billions! 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/08/scottish-independence-companies-billions-of-pounds-value-loss-pro-independence-poll-lead