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Scottish Independence


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Not sure that is totally true Ian. Turkey's first started it's joining discussions in 1987.

Serbia has been given a green light to start discussions with a view to join in 2020.

Behind them, we have Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania all queued up but with no future date set.

Then we have  Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina which have all been promised the prospect of joining when they are ready to.

So what chance Scotland? Surely, as a minimum, it will take 5 years like Serbia? After all, Scotland does not have it's own currency or fiscal policy and control. Any country can apply but fundamentally it needs a period of time to prove it can survive within the EU.  It must have an economy that can cope with the EU’s market forces and be willing to accept established EU law and practice for instance. So that will take Scotland time to prove.

And finally, bringing in new members costs the EU a significant sum of money. The last I read, the UK's bill alone to encourage Turkey, Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia to join was going to be £1.8bn by 2020. And here's the rub. If membership of the EU and the Single market was that attractive. Was that fantastic. Why would they need such huge "financial encouragement" to join?

No. I really do think it is time someone stood up to Queen Nicola and the SNP and really got them to put on the table their "known facts and figures" and their "known commitments" re the EU. We have already heard 3, or was it 4, EU members state clearly that they would veto Scotland's automatic entry. How do we let governments get away with such behaviour and politics where they basically disregard and do not hear anything other than their own rhetoric. It is astounding and does not reflect well on me, and my fellow citizens of Scotland, when we do not call the SNP to account for this but idly let them get away with it..

 

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The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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The BBC in England simply need to stop giving the witch a platform here. They have BBC Scotland for that. I’ve no desire whatsoever to see a vile and divisive politician whom wishes to rip apart Great

My heart sank when I saw this thread reappear, I'd love to see the end of this garbage. The SNP can go and **** themselves up the **** with a nail covered baseball bat. They represent the worst of all

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Andy's hit the nail on the head - no-one is calling Queen Nichola out on her bullshit promises. Trouble is, what opposition does she have in Scotland?

As for acceptance - I reckon human rights violations are probably behind the delays in acceptance, and Scotland hasn't got a bad track record with those. Well, not in the same sense, unless you count the Mars Bars and Buckie.

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Margate Exotics.

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the thing I also reckon is that they secretly want to be isolated......

they have a severe hatred of the English.........and want nothing to do with us other than have our money....

but if they can get the cash elsewhere and get away from us they be really really happy.......

and shes sabre rattling and creating a mindset through it all of hate the English and especially the tory English

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The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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"they have a severe hatred of the English.........and want nothing to do with us other than have our money.... "  A little like certain hate-preachers, eh?

I'm not entirely sure that the majority of Scots hate the English, but Queen Nich appears to me to be stirring up such sentiment.

Margate Exotics.

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Ian

that was what I was getting at........she is directing the view of great animosity

 

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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  • Gold FFM

I agree, the vast majority of Scot's do not hate the English. There is however a significant proportion of Scots who for some reason feel hard done by for events that happened well over 300 years ago.  It might be a cliche, but it is true that that fooking fairy tale of a film, Braveheart, with Mel "what a twit" Gibson seemed to stir up all sorts of emotions that have been re-enforced with Songs like "Flower of Scotland" which is all about beating back the English.

When you confront many Scots ( usually SNP supporters granted ) about their english racism - (this is 100% true - I was called a traitor by an elderly woman in Tesco's in Dundee for buying Tesco's own brand "English Sparkling Water"!!!  - old lady or not I can tell you she got a torrent of non-profanity included abuse from me for being a racist, bigoted, slug of a woman and by the look on her face she was not expecting it!) - they get all defensive and say oh, it's just a joke or just a ribbing. However, after 22 years in Scotland it categorically is not that any more. There is a real bile, a real bite, from many of these people who seem to think they have been so hard done by.

I love reminding them that in real life, not in Braveheart, it was the Scottish Earl of Mentieth, just outside Stirling who had offered William Wallace a safe place to stay before he sold him out to the English for English silver.

I also love reminding people that it was a Scottish King, the son of Mary Queen of Scots, who whilst he was on the throne negotiated the union of the crowns that brought the Kingdoms of England and Scotland together under one crown and monarch.

I also love reminding people that it was the Scottish Government and her senior bankers greed who took Scotland to the point of bankruptcy over the ill fated new Caledonia / Darian project in Panama that forced Scotland to go cap in hand to the English for a bail-out who in turn insisted on a political union and so we got one Government for England and Scotland - obviously this was not repeated some 300 years later by the Scottish bankers of HBoS, RBS, LLoyds et al?

None of this I am sure is actually taught in Schools up here at all. Instead, kids get the romanticised view of a peaceful country of land, heather, honey and farms - let's not talk about the Clans who raped, pillaged, buggered, and killed each other for hundreds of years or the bitterness between the Highlanders and the Lowlanders etc etc. The only things they are taught is about things like the Highland Clearances, where it is was the nasty English again. Funny how the main benefactors though turned out to be Scottish Lairds!

I honestly do not know where this "chip on the shoulder" and "blame the english" for everything mentality comes from with these Nationalists. They want to live in the past, dream of Scotland's glorious past from 1100 - 1600! Well, if they are not careful the SNP will have us all bankrupt and living in mud huts and using peat to keep warm all over again.

I'm lucky in that I was born in England to a Scottish mother and an English father. Half my family is one and the other. I've lived in the wonderful country that is Scotland for 22 years. I've got a heap of family and history all over the West Coast. Many of them are Nationalists and I am sure I am tolerated, as opposed to welcomed, because I am family. That is how deep seated the hatred of the English can be. I truly cannot believe it. And it truly flies in the face of the carefully crafted picture the SNP try to paint.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Rab C Nesbitt, Govan's philosopher (or rather the actor Gregor Fisher), was asked last week what he thought about Scottish independence. "I think in this day and age we should be all coming together, not splitting up," he told the newspaper 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I always find it funny when the old "well the Scottish hate the English....." line is being trotted out. I've lived and worked in England for the majority of my last 17 years, and can confirm that there's as much bile in reverse from English morons toward Scots, as Scottish dipshits toward the English. Let's not pretend otherwise. Personally I couldn't give a crap either way, there are arseholes in every country, regardless of nationality.

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@Colin G

I agree.....I work in oil and gas and as such have been all over the place with Scottish lads and have had a great time.....

I have many friend who are Scots

I worry that the people in charge are the people who don't particularly like the English....and that their waffle draws in others......

I do have to go along with @C8RKH

lovely place with lovely people........just the few who spoil it and generally without reason

(same in England.......we have our Nationalist who do all sorts of crap in the name of the country....which actually isn't)

The Faster You Drive...The Slower You Age

(Albert Einstein  14 March 1879 - 18 April 1955)

 

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  • Gold FFM

Yes - I was definitely and certainly not saying all Scots - after all half my family is Scottish including my mother!  It is always the minority. However, the minority up here now is quite large and even the educated ones have been brain washed.

Maybe I am just getting too sensitive about it but I am absolutely sick to my back teeth of hearing Sturgeon, the SNP, Nats and others just absolutely whitter and whinge on and blame the English, Westminster, the Tories and Maggie Thatcher (30+ years ago for christ's sake - I would say move on but many still whitter on and whinge about things that happened 300 years ago - union of parliament in 1707, or back to Wallace and Bruce some 800 years ago!). We've had devolution and a Scottish parliament for 12+ years - oh yes, but apart from actually lowering education, health, police and social standards the Scottish government has actually delivered very very little in reality despite some quite far reaching powers!.             

As for English bile re Scots. Well, I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that is directly on the rise and in proportion to the sheer amount of shit that has been thrown at them - either directly or perceived, and in an increasingly nasty manner for the past 8 years or so.  Eventually, you prod a bear long enough and hard enough you wake it...

Remember ABE, and supporting any other team but England etc.  99% of that has been one way for decades, but actually, increasingly, you see and hear more and more English firing it back and I can tell you, it is not well received at all. Look at the way the English support/supported the likes of Chris Hoy and Andy Murray when in tournaments in England. Tell me, would an English athlete get the same level of enthusiastic support in Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen!  Aye right.

I had lunch with some colleagues in Perth today and this came up. Both of them are Scottish and both of them said independently that they would have no issue with England having it's own referendum and telling Scotland to feck right off and get out.  Their view was after the years of insults and abuse, why would they (the english)  want Scotland to stay!  One has just bought a new M3 so I didn't really listen too hard to his opinion to be fair

I truly hope we stay together as one United Kingdom. I really do. But until the chip on the shoulder mentality is killed off and the bile is settled, I think the end result is inevitable. My only dilemma really is choosing when to sell up and move. I've loved living in Scotland for the past 22 years. I'm a huge tourist advertisement for her and tell everyone how lovely she is. I'll miss her dearly. But I hate to think how I will be treated as an Englishman in an independent Scotland if things start to go down the tubes.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I have lived in Scotland for nearly 30 years and love it here but wouldnt hesitate to add my name to the list for packing up and shipping out. I don't know who'll be funding all the free healthcare and travel when the taxpayers have all fcuked off. 

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1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

As for English bile re Scots. Well, I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that is directly on the rise and in proportion to the sheer amount of shit that has been thrown at them - either directly or perceived, and in an increasingly nasty manner for the past 8 years or so.  Eventually, you prod a bear long enough and hard enough you wake it...

Just eight years? Aye, very good Andy. I must've just imagined all the Englishmen who called me a "Jock c***" when I moved to London in 1999. <_<

I mean, fair enough if you get to know me first and think that....... :lol:

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Lol. And here was me thinking "Hiya C****!" was just a nice warm Glaswegian welcome! :P

And if it was London chances are 1 in 10 it was an Englishman talking to you...

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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  • 4 months later...

Well I didn't think I'd be resurrecting this anytime soon!

SNP. One Policy party. And that Policy is to Bankrupt the Country. This is a bit like a pay meeting I went to once where the staff all voted against the small pay increase (when the company had made a huge profit) and the MD stood up and said, we will have a vote on it and there will be no pay increase whatsoever until the Management get the answer they are looking for. So vote yes to the small pay rise or you will be back here every day"

She's crazy and dangerous!

 

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To me this is Nicola Sturgeon playing on the dislike (hatred?) of the Scottish for the English, over common sense and rational  arguments such as their income being £40 billion and their annual Spend £60 billion, the shortfall being made up by Westminster. The fact that at the time of the previous refenrendum every Litre of Oil made the Scottish govt profit, whilst now it costs them for every litre. The fact that the UK is by far their biggest trade partner at £45.5 Billion. TWICE THAT OF THE REST OF THE WORLD ADDED TOGETHER!

But I suspect Scottish hatred for the English (and Sturgeons) will win over this time. 

One thing. The UK Govt must give them their fair share of the debts and refuse point blank to offer any money in settlement. If she wants independance she gets it!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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surely if they vote out they will have considerable period when they , will be neither part of the UNITED Kingdom or the European Union,what happens then?

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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