Scottish Independence

[iainskea 30]

There's me on my soap box, wind up my kilt and Bibs yells that out from the crowd, it could have been a Python scene. Ha ha.

You know Tony, once you consumed more Scotch than your body weight, you become one too ladie...

[Bibs 11,119]

Here to help

[Kimbers 1,776]

I'm 100% Scottish then Ian!

[basalte 108]

Whoever wins,  I wonder if they will bother to try to raise the average life expectancy from 54 (in parts of Glasgow), to 78 like in  the rest of the UK. 

 

I mean it`s not like it`s the lowest life expectancy in Europe or anything. (Oh-it is).

 

Primarily there will be an interesting constitutional controversy over the Faslane Trident nuclear base - will it get booted off  to England  in the event of independence ? So the Scots can rid themselves of a prime target for anyone else`s nukes-still as the Americans control our nuclear defence anyway and will probably bung a million dollars at the personal account of whoever has to make the decision, it may well make no difference and MacDonalds and KFC will be open as usual...    

[Bibs 11,119]

My step father was based at Faslane, hence me living in Helensburgh for 3-4 years when I was a nipper. My big sister lived in the peace camp just down the road and used to through eggs at the workers as they arrived by car, including at our stepdad on occasion*!

 

*which is fine since he was a grade a asshole! 

[hedgerley 440]

Salmond is at it again, playing the man, not the ball. There have been several (mild admittedly) contributions from a couple of industry big hitters, notably the CEO of BP Bob Dudley and the outgoing CEO of Sainsbury's Justin King over the past few days. Both have expressed the opinion that independence raises a lot of uncertainties and in the words of the BP CEO, Great Britain should 'stay together'. Now, Dudley is signing the cheques for $10B worth of investment in Scotland in the coming years and whilst he sees no reason to re-consider that investment at the moment, it may be at risk in the future should there be a yes vote.

 

So what does Salmond do? He claims Dudley is part of the 'ruling elite' and is in cahoots with Westminster - his opinion is therefore of no consequence and doesn't matter. So no debate about the real business uncertainties facing one of his country's biggest investors. Remember this is one of the companies who Salmond is relying on to help him deliver his 'economic renaissance' which seems to be solely based on oil revenues. Ditto Justin King who suggested Sainsbury's delivery costs would have to be re-assessed following a yes vote. As he suggested, why should English consumers subsidise deliveries to the remoter parts of what will be a foreign country. Again, Salmond dismissed his comments as irrelevant.

 

And when challenged in the Scottish Parliament yesterday to name some of the 'hundreds of CEOs in favour of independence' he refused to name any, not a single one. Some of them have gone public, Brian Souter of Stagecoach for example. So how about a sensible debate about the business pros and cons between these guys. Nope, Salmond is not interested because the naysayers are the 'ruling elite' and don't speak for ordinary people in Scotland. No Alex, they just support thousands of jobs here and generate millions in tax revenues, a big chunk of which you say should stay in Scotland. What a jerk.

 

As for his comments following Cameron's speech this morning (which admittedly was a bit cheesy and over the top) - I just switched the TV off. He really does make my blood boil.

[obione 74]

I lived in Fife for 21 years and my opinion remains unchanged...

 

Alex Salmond = Nationalistic idiot (but a dangerous one)

[USAndretti42 308]

Being a Scot myself and living in England I'm not sure of my entitlement to vote . Speaking to friends and family it's not the biggest priority in their lives and many couldn't give crap. It seems like a one man crusade; it's not just Alex's surname that sounds a bit fishy.

 

That's the problem.  Most people won't bother to vote but the ones really keen on change will so the outcome could be a vote for independence even though most Scots don't want it or is there some minimum proportion of the population that has to to vote for it in order for it to be accepted?

[hedgerley 440]

I'm actually following this very closely and have even downloaded the SNP Manifesto, oh, sorry, the Independence White Paper that's supposed to answer all the questions. Not.

 

Buried down on page 271 is this little gem –

 

We plan that British citizens habitually resident296 in Scotland on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another country. Scottish born British citizens currently living outside of Scotland will also be considered Scottish citizens.

 

It would appear that given a Yes vote, I am to become a Scottish citizen as will the other 400,000 English born Scottish residents! And despite having no vote at all, the 800,000 Scots living in England are to become Scottish citizens as well, as will the millions living outside the rUK.

 

Later on it says this –

 

The Scottish Government will continue to recognise any currently valid UK passports until their expiry date.

 

Well that’s most magnanimous of them, thanks Alex. So I am assuming that when my passport expires, I will have to apply for a Scottish one?

 

I find these statements arrogant in the extreme, further reinforcing my No vote. And I thought it was just an economic argument. 

Edited February 9, 2014 by hedgerley

[pete 1,792]

Indeed... I envy Scotland greatly!

 

I wish down here in England we could gain independence from Cameron and his bunch of  s... 

people have such short memories.Probably the worst PM we ever had was Scottish and labour as was Tony Blair.probably the second worst.So if they go independent we will be spared all thes scots living in london ruling us and will they take RBS back

[j2 lot 30]

Wee Alex would be streets ahead as the worst PM ever in he gets any more power than he has now....... Doesn't bear thinking about

[Bibs 11,119]

So apart from him, does anyone else want an independent Scotland?

[j2 lot 30]

Mostly no - the most recent polls vary between high 20 and mid 30%

They have picked up a bit of momentum though based on the lack of response from the No campaign to their White Paper.

I think there is a danger that there might be a degree of apathy from the no vote and they aren't doing much to sway the undecided.

Edited February 9, 2014 by j2 lot

[mayevora 1,174]

No need to go to the polls on the 18th. Just a new ferry service to France required.

[Kimbers 1,776]

Scotland using the Pound has been shot down in flames now as well. All parties have said they would not let an independant Scotland use the pound! And the Eu has said they would have to meet EU targets to use the Euro. Good luck with that SNP!

[Bibs 11,119]

How much money is this complete waste of time costing?

[Kimbers 1,776]

I was thinking the same. £13.3 million according to the Independent.

[iainskea 30]

13 million you say, a coincidence that Australia's cost to maintain our 'Royal' ties cost per year as below. Just saying...

The 2008-2009 Annual Report from the Office of the Governor General shows that $13.395 million was spent on the whole show in that year including $365,000 on the GG's salary. All but $108,000 came from taxes.

Ref:

http://www.gg.gov.au/administration/content.php?id=5

[hedgerley 440]

Scotland using the Pound has been shot down in flames now as well. All parties have said they would not let an independant Scotland use the pound! And the Eu has said they would have to meet EU targets to use the Euro. Good luck with that SNP!

 

Yep, and did you see Salmond's reaction this morning? Here we have an analysis by the independent Treasury mandarins on the prospects of a currency union and Scotland keeping the pound. There are some pretty smart guys there I presume who have a put a lot of thought into the matter. Its conclusion is that it would not work and more specifically would actually work against the interests of the rUK and in particular its taxpayers. 

 

In a rare show of political unity and having considered the Treasury analysis, the current Chancellor and his two shadows have all agreed to reject a currency union in the event of a Yes vote - Salmond will have to come up with Plan B. 

 

What does Salmond say "this is bullying by the Westminster Establishment and the ruling elite". Er, yes Alex - Osborne has every right to defend the interests of rUK. This constant sniping by the SNP is a variation of Class War in my opinion and is making Salmond look more idiotic. Every poll suggests the economy is top of the Scots agenda when it comes to the vote in September. The SNP is looking more farcical as every day passes.

 

Edited to add the following from BBC News which has just appeared. This is what the SNP used to say about "The Pound" - 

 

"As recently as 2009, at the SNP's annual conference in Inverness, the party's former treasurer, Ian Blackford, argued that being "tied to sterling" after independence would mean Scotland having to, "pay the price in higher interest rates while being exposed to a currency that has a history of suffering from wild fluctuations".

 

'Millstone'

The view was common among delegates although official party policy was to put the decision to the people in a referendum.

During the same debate, the MEP Alyn Smith said Scotland was "currently part of a debt-laden sub-prime toxic asset currency we don't want to be part of and which is not serving our interests well".

And long before that, in a speech in Brussels on 9 November 1999, Mr Salmond himself had insisted that an "economic policy made in the south east of England, by the south east of England and for the south east of England" was damaging Scottish business.

The pound, he said with characteristic pithiness, was "a millstone round Scotland's neck".

 

And now they want to keep this "toxic" currency in an independent Scotland. This is up there with Salmond's statement about joining the "Northern Arc of Prosperity" which at the time included Iceland and Ireland. And look what happened to them!

Edited February 13, 2014 by hedgerley

[Bibs 11,119]

He wants all the oil & gas now! Err, no! 

[Dunc 412]

The independance debate has essentially been settled:

 

There is no way the Glaswegians can deal with the uncertaintly of losing Poundland.

 

On a serious note - The growth of the independance campaign has been spawned by the two national political parties.

 

I'm going to sound like a patronising Scottish twat with the below (yeah - no real change from usual), but for anyone interested here is Dunc's 2 minute guide for foreign people to the Scottish independance debate, and how we have gotten to this point:

 

In the 80's the Tory government treated Scotland appallingly (poll tax 3 years before everyone else, Rosyth vs Devonport, Ravenscraig etc etc) with the result that Scotland essentially became a Tory free zone and a socialist Labour stronghold post Thatcherism. Scotland turned to Labour en-masse, with England continuing to vote Tory for the time being.

 

The Labour Party grew their powerbase in Scotland, with Scottish Labour ministers rising to prominance within the Labour Party nationally. Scotland was voting Labour and the Labour party were open to locking this in by devolving powers to a Scottish assembly, essentially pandering to nationalist ideals, but out of Labour party political self interest.

 

Then the rest of the UK then swung towards new Labour, putting Labour into government and giving Labour the ability to push through reforms and advance devolution whilst in government. Their hope being that even if England started voting Tory again, Labour would retain control of Scotland whilst in opposition, through their use of the devolved powers. They do the same by devolving powers to the Welsh Assembly where they have similar strength.

 

Then Britain's electorate realised that new Labour was at least as corrupt as the Tory's they had removed on an anti sleaze ticket a few years earlier, whilst remaining the party of high taxation and high expenditure that they always had been throughout the 70's. Discontent over corruption, spin, the Iraq war and general fiscal mis-management results in a swing away from Labour back toward the Tories.

 

However nobody votes Tory anymore in Scotland - not even Scottish Tories, as its an utter waste of a vote. Whilst there is growing discontent with the Labour party nationally, a Tory vote in Scotland might as well be placed for the save the 2cv party.

 

Varying Scottish voters  then select the only party available- one thats at least trusted to do the right thing on local issues, rather than pander to a party line with a vested interest elsewhere.

 

The devolved powers that new Labour set up, actually ended up benefitting a different political party - the SNP.

 

Will Scotland vote for independance? I doubt it, as a great many people voting for the SNP in general and council elections aren't voting for independance - they have been voting their rejection of umpteen years of Labour waste, corruption, spin and muppetry. None of that is the same as being an ardent nationalist.

[Bibs 11,119]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/01/scotland-driving-on-right-independence-road-scheme

[Kimbers 1,776]

April Fool?

[Mark Blanchard 1,642]

Not very convincing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10735711/Alex-Salmond-to-replace-the-Queen-on-new-Scottish-pound-coin.html

[Kimbers 1,776]

How on earth is anyone meant to understand the truth when both sides are blatantly misleading?

 

Todays articles/press conferences etc are ridiculous.

 

The SNP say you are £1000 a year better off (as a Scot) with Independence and the UK govt say you are £1400 better off staying in the UK.

 

If I was Scottish and voting I would be totally confused. Infact I am now and that's with just passing interest!