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Scottish Independence


Kimbers

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3 hours ago, PaulCP said:

the Scottish version of Corbyn. An activist not a politician.

What an excellent penetrating and pithy summary of wee kranky 

4 hours ago, Neal H said:

What isn’t acceptable is 47 SNP MP’s in Westminster who’s sole agenda seems to be to undermine the workings of the U.K.

that's their democratic right .. but fortunately they don't have the numbers to do anything meaningful in Westminster 

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1 minute ago, SFO said:

What an excellent penetrating and pithy summary of wee kranky

She seems upset that Boris was in Scotland on a visit including the army/ hospital  etc, may be she was more upset that Boris did not want to see her?

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4 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

She seems upset that Boris was in Scotland on a visit including the army/ hospital  etc, may be she was more upset that Boris did not want to see her?

Upset because Boris's vaccine plans are working out well

I don't think she has done well on this nonsensical objection - she has come across as small minded, self righteous, shrill and petty 

Ress Mogg called her "moanalot" 😂

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2 minutes ago, SFO said:

Ress Mogg called her "moanalot"

May be that's the sound when they get very close together....

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36 minutes ago, SFO said:

Upset because Boris's vaccine plans are working out well

I don't think she has done well on this nonsensical objection - she has come across as small minded, self righteous, shrill and petty 

Ress Mogg called her "moanalot" 😂

I recall a classic quote by John McDonnell in the run up to the last election.
He was asked for his reaction to something (can’t remember what) that Sturgeon had said she was outraged at.

His comment was “if you gave her a cup of tea with 2 sugars in it when she only wanted one sugar she would have to tell the world how outraged she was”

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If this is true (it is the D Mail) then it just proves what she’s really like, and confirms my assessment earlier, the actions of an activist.

No doubt she wants to put one over on Boris for visiting Scotland. Is she ready to give up the Scots vaccine allocation to the EU

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9196445/MEPs-threaten-TRADE-WAR-UK-vaccine-supplies.html

Can she still be shot for treason🤔

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  • Gold FFM

I have had a few glasses of wine,  @Sparky approved I might add as I only have a drink if he does and it’s not going well to be honest. 
 

But.............

shouldn’t the rest of the UK have a vote on this as well? Maybe they want independence and maybe we don’t or do, I don’t know, feck it I will just drink some more Sparkles approved wine. 

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According to a study by the LSE, while the SNP keep complaining about the cost to their economy that Brexit will bring, independence will cost 3 times as much.

Brexit, trade and Scottish independence analysis

S4 Elan, Elan +2S, Federal-spec, World Championship Edition S2 Esprit #42, S1 Elise, Excel SE

 

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  • Gold FFM

I agree @Neal H. During the last "foreverendum" on Independence the "Yes" campaign was all about the future - it was painting a vision of a land full of free fried mars bars, buckfast and haggis roaming around the glens.  It was a vision of what could be with NO real fiscal scrutiny behind it and as such many people voted for it.

The "No" campaign mainly focused on the negatives and did not set out or paint a future vision.

As a result, I firmly believe there was some complacency and apathy and as a result what we ended up with was three camps:

1. The believers - those who passionately want independence and those who were taken in by the future vision and promises. I believe that the majority in this camp would have been sufficiently engaged to actually get off their arses and vote

2. The non believers - those who did not want independence and were not taken in by the future vision. I believe that many of these were sufficiently engaged, but not all, as many would have discounted / not believed that the Independence supporters were many or would win. I do believe this is what happened with REMAIN - a portion of the electorate could not be arsed to vote as they just did not believe that a sufficient number of people would be stupid enough to vote for Brexit.
 

3. The undecided - these will be were the battle is won or lost and if NO is to win it does need to not just focus on the fiscal arguments, but also the "vision" for the future

 

I do wonder if this time around, like with Brexit, we would not see an increase in No and Remain as people now understand how close the vote may be and whilst the "believers" were already totally engaged to vote, it is from the non believers that the biggest number of voters could be energised and so that would have the biggest "swing" effect. So in effect Brexit would be Remain and Independence would be a more emphatic no.

 

Hope these ramblings make sense.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Personally I think it should be a vote for the whole of the UK as it will effect everyone in the Union the same way leaving the EU was. I would agree to it on that Basis and that it is the final one ever.

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!)

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  • Gold FFM
19 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Personally I think it should be a vote for the whole of the UK as it will effect everyone in the Union the same way leaving the EU was. I would agree to it on that Basis and that it is the final one ever.

That could never work and would be a recipe for disaster. The view of the 60m would always counter the view of the 6m directly effected. Just look at Brexit where Scotland said Remain but the UK said leave.  Sorry. Not a viable approach.

Using your approach would also mean any "vote" on the unification of Ireland would be a UK wide vote. Good luck with that!

 

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Be interested to see how the Salmond/Sturgeon 'spat' plays out over the next 2 weeks.  Can't imagine it will be the downfall of NS, but do they have any credible leaders in reserve?    At the end of the day she is supremely annoying, but she has been very effective - although I think she could push the anti-England rhetoric too far for some moderate supporters as she further ramps up the hysteria.

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3 hours ago, 910Esprit said:

  At the end of the day she is supremely annoying, but she has been very effective 

She has only been effective in promoting the independence agenda.

Everything else that she controls - education, health, drugs policy, vaccine rollout - is poor. 

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8 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Personally I think it should be a vote for the whole of the UK as it will effect everyone in the Union the same way leaving the EU was. I would agree to it on that Basis and that it is the final one ever.

Deleted my thoughts on reflection!!

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  • Gold FFM

More importantly to whether NS survives is the fallout from the removal of Joanna Cherry from the Westminster dream team. She is hugely influential and well thought of and this, along with NS's husbands reluctance to give evidence re Salmond, is really hurting NS's reputation.

5 hours ago, 910Esprit said:

At the end of the day she is supremely annoying, but she has been very effective

Give me some examples please? I hear this said a lot about Sturgeon  but nobody really substantiates the "what" she has been effective at.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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10 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Give me some examples please? I hear this said a lot about Sturgeon  but nobody really substantiates the "what" she has been effective at.

She is effective at being a politician and has promoted herself to the point where she is pretty much given as much airtime and 'standing' as the PM - even in England.   I would also say she has been effective of creating animosity and a divide between Scotland and England - That is not accidental, its a strategy.

She is credited amongst Scottish votersand possibly the media, with handling COVID more effectively than the other nations (although vaccination rates may undermine that).  Polls suggest she has significantly increased support for the SNP and the independence vote.  That will be tested in May.   

You are assuming I meant 'effective' at delivery of policy.  I did not.  

 

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  • Gold FFM

I simply couldn’t imagine an English nationalist party as being referred to as anything other than a far right racist organisation by the BBC - what’s so different about Scotland? When it’s cold and wet do folks stop being racist ?

Only here once

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