Electric gremlins

[johnpwalsh]

OK give me a clue, jumped into the Esprit S3 today and went to start her for the first time in about 10 weeks, two turns of the engine and hey presto fires straight up, go for anual MOT and she fails on no indicators although the hazards and all the other lights are working fine. Get her back home and have a looksee. switch on the igniton then noticed no igniton lights either, strange thing is she starts straight off the button but also noticed the ameter is showing a charge of just above the red and doesnt move when you rev the engine. Now electrics and me dont agree so any suggestions please in simple terms, i.e. check this colour wire, check that colour wire etc.

 

Thanks again in advance guys, I know someone will have a suggestion.

 

John.

[scottmgibb]

Sell it any buy an SE...

[johnpwalsh]

Thanks Mr Gibb, always did pay attention to your words of advice. She is up for sale as it is being replaced by a Stephens GT 130 in Bright Yellow of course.

[Mike6]

As a start I would check earthing straps, clean relays and then check fuses  

[johnpwalsh]

Did think about fuses but hazards are all working ok, so go to find the relays then, give me an engine change to do far better than electrics, but thanks. Is there a common earth for the indicators.

Edited February 12, 2014 by johnpwalsh

[iainskea]

If you have a volt meter, check the battery voltage (not running), then battery volts running. Should be at least 12v and 13.5v respectively. This will illuminate the battery and the alternator.

Iain

[jonwat]

This will illuminate the battery and the alternator.

I hope you mean eliminate. :-)

[sailorbob]

Not sure about the S3 but the S4 has a ignition fed fuse for the indicators and a battery fed fuse for the hazards. Could be worth checking if it's the same.

[iainskea]

Yep, being an 'engineer' excludes me from many skills normal folk have, like spelling, speaking and all social skills except drinking

[johnpwalsh]

Yep but I bet like me you can engineer an excuse for a drink so that allows you time to socialise and practice all your other skills. Well it's a good excuse.

[molemot]

Lotus electrics...where to start???!!! Most problems are bad earth connections, duff connectors, dirty fuses and fuse holders... Have a shufti at the wiring diagram and then prod about the car in a logical fashion. Try and find a common point that would influence all the disparate faulty bits....The earth connections on a Lotus can be unbelievably odd...so don't discount anything. The advice to check the battery voltage on and off charge is excellent. This'll be a fun job for a nice sunny afternoon...what's that? Floods??(!)

[johnpwalsh]

Update.so far I have been through the system and found the alternator had stopped charging so thats been fixed, so we now have an ignition light again, hazard lights work ok so not the bulbs or earth's as the earth is a common earth for both, I noticed when I put on indicators that the ignition light came on so disconnected all the wiring at the blocks, cleaned and reasembeled so that fixed that, now found a blown 17amp fuse so hopefully once some spare fuses are obtained that should be that.

[iainskea]

.... Slow up there John, that was fixes completed that several separate topics here have last weeks on! Ha ha.

What was wrong with the alternator charge?

Iain

[johnpwalsh]

Haha, noticed while checking the system that the ameter was showing charge but only just so decided to have it checked and the  output was only 12.4 volts so took it off and down to our local starter/alternator guru to find that some kind if sticky gunk under the cover had stuck to the brushes and only one was making contact, quick stripdown and a clean was all that was needed now pushing 14.6 volts and loooking good. Removed the indicator stalk and gave all the contacts a clean and checked for any poor soldering etc and stuck that all back together, nect to the fuse box and found one blown fuse so swaped some over but no difference so now waiting on a replacement flasher unit so that I can eliminate that next.

[molemot]

Hazards aren't necessarily an indication that all is well with the earths...they backfeed through the bulbs sometimes; jolly confusing!!

[iainskea]

Nice work so far

Hmmm, you say when you switched on the indicators the ignition light cane on, then cleaned up etc etc then you found a blown fuse and ignition light no longer comes on right? This could be unrelated (probably), but there is a chance that your indication circuit was shorting, dragging down the voltage across the ignition circuit (thus the light), until the fuse blew, then it all stopped.

If this was the case then when you replace the fuse it will do the same again, then blow again. Resist the option to put in a bigger fuse, don't need a fire! Isolate your indicators and hook them up one at a time, fault find from there maybe.

Or the fuse fixes everything and you go driving ha ha

Iain

[johnpwalsh]

Ian, you obviously dont know the history of my S3, fire is a word that I dont use as I almost lost her to the dreaded fire bug 18 months ago, in fact this is the last job I have to do before her going back on the road so I fully understand the dreaded fire word. The plan is to stick in a new fuse and see what happens, I have a new flasher unit on order so will stick that on as well then take it from there, hopefully the fuse does the trick as the fuse box was also a bit shitty.

Fingers crossed. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by johnpwalsh

[iainskea]

Yikes, close call, my worst nightmare.

[johnpwalsh]

OK, success, pulled all the earth contacts and cleaned them all, pulled all the fuses from the two fuse box's and cleaned the terminals. 28 mile round trip,( thats what I get for staying out in the sticks ) to the local parts store as in Halfod's, one pack of fuses, old fuse was 17 amp but the best I could get was 20 amp so stuck them in and hey presto, so now got a car that charges the battery, shows charge on the ameter, igniton lights work, hazards work, indicators work bloody hell soon be like a real car again. Next project, final strip down of the rear brakes, fit new slide pins and gaitors,( parts arrived superfast, thanks again SJ) brake pad anti rattle shims and do the dreaded annual handbrake fix then back for her MOT and hey presto she lives for another year. The to do and wish list has almost expired so she is now ready for a new owner, fingers crossed as my new project is still waiting in the wings for a new home. And yes it's another Lotus.

Edited February 17, 2014 by johnpwalsh

[johnpwalsh]

Oh well. took her for a short run today after final adjustment of the gearchange and well pleased now all five gears engaging and working well, that was untill I turned to head for home. One hundred yards short of the drive one missfire then she died. All the old gremlins back again, she has new Lumition unit, new distributor pickup, new chopper blade in the distrinutor, new high speck coil, new cap, new leads, new rotor arm. The only thing that was not changed was the ht lead from the coil to the distributor so first thing was to change that for a spare I had but still no spark at the plugs. I am now totaly stumped as I have tried everything known to me and she is due her  MOT at 9 am tomorrow, ferck it.

[Mike6]

Assuming your distributor hasnt slipped such that timing is out or your distributor cap hasnt popped off and that you have replaced the pick up and the wiring from the distributor all the way back to the coil I would ask whether your car has the Lucas AB14 ignition amplifier fitted. They can break down and give the symptoms you describe. The AB14 was fitted to a number of early Jags and you can normally pick them up from ebay or get them rebuilt.

[johnpwalsh]

Hi Mike and thanks for the reply, the first thing I did was check my timing in case of slipage and it's still bang on. I have tried another coil, Luminition unit, infra red pick up dizzy cap and leads, I am completely stumped on this one as when I was doing the rebuild everything was replaced with new and I mean everything. The only suspect I have and to be honest I dont know if it would have an effect but I noticed that the small wire on the starter terminal had gotten bent downwards and contacted the mains wire from the alternator, could that have caused a short out somewhere !. The engine turns over as normal and all the panels lights are as normal, I have also checked the fuses just to make sure.

Stumped !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike6]

Sorry but in my reply I wasnt meaning the ht lead to the coil but the smaller cable that is attached to the distributor pick up that then connects to a longer lead going to the amplifier and then to the coil. On my car this longer lead (LT I imagine) was rock hard and had chaffed where it rubbed under the rear panel.

[v8vantage]

Had the same thing happen on my JPS. The wire to the fuel pump had come off and the engine died. It was the one that comes from the coil, had dislodged it when I was ferreting around in the engine bay. Is your fuel pump ticking away?

[johnpwalsh]

Mike, yep guessed that but checked them anyway but they are all new, replaced during the rebuild and all fresh.

Roo, fuels pumps is ticking merily away and plenty fuel at the carbs it is an electrical bug for sure as no spark at the ht leads.