Europa - did anyone NOT like it ?

[Kimbers]

Oh come on Tony dont get all bent out of shape, it is a automotive comedy web site!

I'm not sure Clive or Hazel Chapman would agree it's funny, but heyho........

[Paul C]

Just bumping this up as the Europa thing was bunging up another thread elsewhere.

For my part, the 'don't dis it till you drive it' is unimportant as i've (sorry guys) really

disliked the way it looked from day one, and disliked it more in the flesh. I chose not

to test it as i'm never going to want one (in the same way i have not tested the micra),

and figured the test seat would be more enjoyed by someone interested in this car.

Have tested the Exige and Elise as i like them, and although i'm in no doubt this car will

handle as well as those, this car does not interest me at all, as i've stated somewhere down

this thread. I DO however want it to be successful as i want Lotus to be successful and build

a proper big car again. I don't know how well it's placed in the market as the Boxter/TT/MR2

etc all disinterest me even more, so it's a market i know or care nothing about.

I do know Lotus are building and selling cars, and thats good for all of us.

See how i did that without being all rude...

[Mark Blanchard]

Really shame about the Europa. It's generally gone quite in the cars mags about it.

Wasn't the Europa supposed to be featured in Top Gear? I heard Clarkson tested it for the programe early last Autumn (or was it shown in this last series. Was looking for it but didn't see it).

I hope Lotus develop it and sort out it's problems.

[WayneB]

I read somewheres that Lotus were going to fix up the dash (with the replacement Elise style?)and interior door panels.

IMO, new exterior mirrors, some sort of exhaust tip upgrade and colour matched headlamp nacelles would be to the cars advantage .

Producing it in the Elises wilder lifestyle colour pallette would be a good idea, the greys, silvers, blues and that mettalic purple dont do a thing for it lookswise.

Edited March 5, 2007 by WayneB

[Mark Blanchard]

I read somewheres that Lotus were going to fix up the dash (with the replacement Elise style?)and interior door panels.

I hope they do. Really want to see the Europa work. Also, was thinking Lotus could put the Exige S engine in it (or something more powerful) as the existing unit has come in for some criticism (ebb and flow of torque has been mentioned). It would be great to see it take the Porsche Cayman S to the cleaners.

And it was a shame they marketing it against the Audi TT etc. That proved a mistake. Could be just a more comfortable Exige with a faster top speed.

[peter_england99]

Here is a quote from a customer and tuner http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/tuning/...ropa_Blog.shtml

Good PR for Lotus.

Regards,

Peter.

[Advantage]

Also, was thinking Lotus could put the Exige S engine in it

Nooo! Completely inappropriate engine for the Europa. The Europa isn't about bouncing off the rev limiter, it's for effortless acceleration and easy progress up the road.

The Exige and Elise are for internet nerdy geek types.

The Europa is for people who have real friends.

[SteveJ]

The Exige and Elise are for internet nerdy geek types.

The Europa is for people who have real friends.

You won't win many friends like that

[Tony K]

For about eight years, Americans lusted after the "forbidden fruit", the Elise. Americans waited patiently while being jerked around by back and forth claims of "We're gonna import it" / "no, we're not gonna import it" by Lotus.

Aside from federalization costs, the biggest reason Lotus repeatedly cited for not making a federal Elise was that "it is too spartan for Americans. Americans want carpet, air conditioning, and stereos."

It seems to me that, following this line of thinking, the Europa S would be a natural fit for the American market. Genuine Lotus handling and light weight, but a little more refinement, and useable by/with people other than hardcore sportscar fanatics. Furthermore, given the similarity between the Elise and Europa, could they not have shared some of the federalization costs between the two?

Would I be a potential customer for the Europa S? I want mid-engine, two seats, fixed or removable hard roof, top-shelf handling, and enough rawness to feel like a race car but enough refinement to use it for an evening out. Something about half way between an Elise and a Cayman would be about right. Is that the Europa S?

The styling of the Europa does not really appeal to me, but I like it a whole lot more than the Elise!

[Mark Blanchard]

Nooo! Completely inappropriate engine for the Europa. The Europa isn't about bouncing off the rev limiter, it's for effortless acceleration and easy progress up the road.

The Exige and Elise are for internet nerdy geek types.

The Europa is for people who have real friends.

Yea, I understood that from there inital press release. I just don't think the Motoring Press and public get it, as there are plent of other cars that do it better.

So, change it's purpose and it might appeal to more people.

[Advantage]

You won't win many friends like that

Allow me to present exhibit A:

SELOC.

You may respond.....

(I've owned many, many Lotuses in the past, including Elises and a 340R etc and am a member of seloc, I feel qualified to take the mick out of myself!)

[Jonathan]

LOL point well made !

[SteveJ]

I see, you're an ex-internet geek who's gone through rehab then

[Paul C]

...easy progress up the road.

Sounds exciting.

I doubt Chapman would have wanted that in the ad though

Is however a very fair description of what it's about. There is of course no need to

become a geeky Seloc type just because you own an Elise, i've met some elise owners

that are great people and very passionate about the Lotus brand. So the model does not

always dictate the owner.

I've actually met (no word of a lie) at least two BMW owners that did not fit into the

pot bellied-big headed - secretary pestering - friendless - selfish - bad driving - unfunny -

surrounded by yes men that hate them - disliked by people they claim respect them -

crap at golf - socially bankrupt - hated by their children - laughed at once they leave the

pub - two a penny generic moron pervy stereotype, that you would obviously expect.

So it's worth letting the odd one out in traffic.

[Kimbers]

Nooo! Completely inappropriate engine for the Europa. The Europa isn't about bouncing off the rev limiter, it's for effortless acceleration and easy progress up the road.

The Exige and Elise are for internet nerdy geek types.

The Europa is for people who have real friends.

Dunno about the last comment but i do agree with the effortless acceleration and easy progress. I drove 800 miles over a long weekend and got out like I'd been driving my Accord, at the other end!

On top of that I raced an Impreza and kept up with a speeding tentenths and his co pilot for 120 miles or so!

I also didn't have to fill up like he did!

[Advantage]

New piccies of revised interior, fresh off the Geneva press:

[WayneB]

That interior is a big improvement!

Looking at the exterior shot of the black paint finish is making me wonder why Lotus dont do a JPS version with gold anodised trim, badging (inc Lotus logo) and wheels?

I also agree with Tony Ks comments about this car being more suitable for the North American market than the Elise/Exige, where its extra refinement (over outright performance) would be regarded as a worthwhile tradeoff.

Edited March 6, 2007 by WayneB

[Guest Troy Halliday]

OK looks like I am gonna have to email the factory and tell them how much I think the better the interior looks. After all I was very vocal on the subject of the interior looking to bland and that some creative leather work would make all the difference. On the whole I quite liked the car. It was certainly quick enough as proved by a couple of out forum members in the early part of the factory tour weekend. In definately looked better in the flesh than any of the pictures I had seen of it. There was some very nice subtle styling cues that I thought were very well done. I feel that for the sake of a few extra kg it has made a world of difference

So I would officialy like to apolagise to MJK, Brian Angus and all the other poor soles that I ranted at, the interior is a vast improvement .

[Mark Blanchard]

Wow, looks much better . Is that interior going to be standard? Certainly hope it will be.

[mayevora]

Not too sure on the saddle bags, but a cracking looking interior.

[SteveJ]

So after it was pointed out that I couldn't comment on this car unless I had driven it, I decided to book a test drive. I was hoping that despite the boring exterior design it would actually drive better than all the people I know who've tested one said it did.

Well, it didn't

I had to keep reminding myself that it cost

[Kimbers]

You are absolutely right, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I would suggest that the car you drove is not a good example of a Europa.

I never said it was the best car in the world, but the 2 I've driven would definately stomp all over the Audi and BMW either in a straight line or on the track.

I genuinely love the car and if money wasn't an option I'd order one tomorrow.

The trouble with the cars you quote is that 1. The Audi and BM are really considered girls cars because of their looks and the way they handle. 2. The porsche is a great car but, and this is my own opinion, lacks passion. I just can't get excited about them....any of them. 3. They are all German and I swore after working for VW and Mercedes that I would never ever have another well engineered but boring and ultimately unexciting car.

If Money was an issue (which it is) I'd chuck the whole lot out and get an S2000, saving myself

[SteveJ]

I do hope you're right that it was a bad car, but as it was a demonstrator it won't be selling the Europa in the best light if it was.

The question about girly cars is very subjective. A lot of people think the Elise is a girly car, I even had some girl student in Cardiff scream "how f***ing gay is that car" whilst I drove past in the Exige. So considering it's aimed at people who actually like the Z4, TT and Boxter, perhaps some of the attributes they like in those cars (e.g. quality interior, power delivery, engine sound) need to be brought in to the Europa if Lotus expect to steal customers.

S2000 is a great car, I love the gear change don't like the digital dash.

Well here's to the new 2+2 and I hope it blows the existing coupe market into the weeds.

[Kimbers]

With the right Engine body combination I would love to see Lotus back with a new style Elite. The Eagle definately has the looks! As a family man I too can't wait!

[SteveJ]

Eagle? Has something landed then?