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Right then better start my '77 S1 project... - Page 27 - Projects & Restorations - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
CharlieCroker

Right then better start my '77 S1 project...

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If you apply a bit of hand pressure on the turning spindle you might find it will stop up and down.

Without the pod connected to add weight they can go too fast and skip over the stop points in the motor.

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Hi Charlie. This how mine are wired sorry no pics to thick.

30amp 5 pin relay for both motors.

pin 30 live feed from starter motor,

pin 85 earth,

pin 86 old solenoid activation wire. black,

pin 87A up or down wire,

pin 87 down or up wire,

brown from motor perm live as per pin 30,

black from motor earth,

green not used.

i cant remember the up and down colours but you should be only left with two wires when all the lives and earths are in place.

I hope this helps Clive.

Sorry should be 30amp crossover relay.

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If you apply a bit of hand pressure on the turning spindle you might find it will stop up and down.

Without the pod connected to add weight they can go too fast and skip over the stop points in the motor.

I've just been speaking to Barry (thanks for the advice) and we are now thinking the same. It might be that it is all wired correctly but not reaching the bump stop to actually 'stop'. My next test will be that, so thanks for the help and advice. We'll get there, by hook or by crook, we'll get there!

Cheers Clive, I think this is what I have, next test bump stops!

Edited by CharlieCroker

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The motors should only cycle through 180 degrees with nothing on the arms. The motors will jam if the pivot points are incorrect. This was trial and error to get right.

Clive

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My motors would cycle 180 degrees with out bump stops. i would test without the pods connected.

Sorry i dont mean to be bossy.

Clive

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Cheers dude, that's what I want, I'm sure my motors are good, I need to bench test them like that, I'll be down in the garage this afternoon, lets see what happens this time! I must have the wires pickled, I'll get there, if it's the last job I do, I'll get there... Thanks for all the help chaps, it's greatly appreciated and that video is just what I need. I mean my relay is not creating (what the guy is doing on the red/yellow) so I must have done something arse upwards :-p

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The saga continues... I have to say I'm losing the will to live now, absolutely cannot get this motor to fuction at 180 like the video. Also I hasten to add, all the advice from the forum is great but not two people have given me the same colour coding. I don't have a black wire (from the old solenoid) see photo. I don't vhave a brown off the mx5 motor so I'm continually clutching at straws. I'll just keep plugging away but of all the jobs I've done on this car this is the only one to have stumped me completely. So it's guoing to be a long night.

20150501_145013_zpsi3adhjes.jpg

Old vacuum set up and wiring.

2015-04-30%2020.08.02_zpscsvycckj.png

2015-04-30%2020.08.02_zpscsvycckj.png

If you look closely the black wire to solenoid was an extension wire which colour was actually blue/brown.

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I just took a quick look to see if the same problem exists on the MX5. Here is a link to a thread that may help:

 

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=64414&highlight=headlight+ground

 

The last post in particular talks about cleaning up the position sensors in the motor. It could equally well be the wiring or the relay that controls the motors.

 

Good luck, Richard

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So I took the advice from Richard and at first seemed like it might make the difference. Opened the the back up to find the contacts covered in grease, which I take it has got through the seal, great that must be te cause?! Just a case of cleaning out the grease, scotchpad the contacts and pulled out the contact levers and put it all back together. Wired it all back up and... same bloody thing, just keep spinninh 360 err!!

So what do I do now, take a chance on another pair of motors in the hope the new motors are working? Don't really know what to do now, I can't get these motors to work on or off the car, they must be knackered right?

20150501_180136_zpsoororrdp.jpg

20150501_171344_zps89omu5qd.jpg

In these photos you can see how the motor works (should work) the contact levers make the circuit but the circuit is broken when it hits the plastic pad.

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Ahhh - those little copper strips are used as a switch.

Need to buzz out which wires they attach to. The middle one is common - always on the Pcb copper bit. The outer two are interupted by the White spaces in the Pcb. Is the green one going to the middle contact??

My motors will be here next week ........

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Yes, green center, red outer, yellow inner. I hope you have better success then me my hair has been turning grey trying to get these to work!

Edited by CharlieCroker

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It does seem odd though if both your motors have the same fault. One of them yes, but both seems to me to say there's still a problem with the wiring. Any chance you could scribble out a wiring diagram for us all to have a look at? One of us must be able to spot something! Dan


Regular restorer. Rather less reliable forum poster!

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I will be at Duxford Sunday and will be happy to take out a headlamp so you can have a look. As there are 35 plus loti at the show and my Elite will be the only Elite there it would be nice to see another.

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Have you tried testing on the bench with just one earth and one positive to rule out any relay wiring related issues?

If you get the wires wrong it does look like you could get it whirling round constantly if you wire up the indicator light to a permanent feed.

http://www.dehp.net/headlight.jpg

Do you have a meter to test at all?

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I'm totally baffled by it all to be honest, I can't even get the motor to run like the video directly from the battery. Look at this photo, these are the colours I'm dealing with.

20150501_145013_zpsi3adhjes.jpg

Basically the only way I can get the arm to rotate is using the white/black wire connected to 30 on a piggy back with the permanent live. Red and yellow go to 87/87a respectively. 86 has the feed from the old solenoid piggy backed to black from the lift motor. 85 has the other feed from the solenoid.

Look at the old solenoid set up, there's four bloody wires going to it! I'm no auto electrician but sure that isn't right?

2015-04-30%2020.08.02_zpscsvycckj.png

I have to agree with Dan, the motor donot look abused, I'm sure something in the wiring is wrong?

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The MX5 uses a single relay to control the headlamp motors (providing separate live feeds depending on up or down). IS this relay working correctly?

 

Good luck, Richard

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The original vac solenoid should only have one black wire from the switch.

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Ok, so I've tried every conceivable variation to no avail to work directly off the dash board pull switch. However I can make the motors work in a usable fashion by using a window switch which I have spare. Basically the pods would work like a window ie I would push the button down until the pods rise, however I have to hold the switch on until the pods reach the up bump stop. The second I take my finger of the switch the pod stays at that position. To close I simple hit the button again until the pod reaches the down bump stop. What should I do, should I go with that as a medium solution or persauvere with getting them to work as the video. By now I'm losing hope with my wiring loom, 40 years of peoples 'quick fixes' leave me with little faith.

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I think you seem to have tried everything with these motors.

My electric knowledge is miminal but could the problem be the use of the piggyback treminals. I seem to recall in the original listings in this thread that you were not too conversant with them.

Somewhere else in the thread there is the statement that the original solenoid wire powers the relay and using the piggybacks powers the other functions.

Please don't flame me but I have the feeling this could be where the fault lies.

No help really but all the best.

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Cheers dixi, I mean it's not rocket science, the piggyback terminals are simple, and I've followed the connections to the letter and believe I had got that right. I don't know where the fault lies (obviously) but I don't have the black wire which everyone refers to regarding the solenoid, just two blue/brown wires. I've tried every possible combination to no avail. I'll let Barry have ago at his and if he has good success I'll revisit mine. For the time being I'm going to use one of my spare switches to just get some sort or up/down action. Better to have something than nothing.

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Awaiting my delivery....... As soon as they come I will be playing with them there wires........

Confident a solution can be found

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Gentleman we have a bit of up and down action! So unfortunately as you all know I've been unable to get these damn motors functioning as others have done and after pulling my hair out for nearly a week I decided to just have them on an on/off switch, although not perfect for now this will be more than sufficient. Just need to adjust the pod bumpstop positions but all in all I'm happy with the way they work.

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Not that I have done this myself but when I was investigating mx5 motors I thought they worked on a rising signal and a falling signal. In other words when the electronics in the motor sees the power to the light go from zero to 12v they work and then vise versa. The relay wiring might be causing the issue

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An "expert" electronic / electrical engineer such as myself will get to the bottom of this when I get my motors!!

Fire extinguisher also ready

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