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Good info Dave. This car is recorded on the register as a Cat D according to HPI already.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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With regards to the Azure Blue Esprit S4s reg G17 SPY, this is a trade sale and I understand that legally it should be declared as a Cat D write off.    I've informed Pistonheads for them to remove

The Cat D Esprit has been removed from Pistonheads already

He has changed the ad, it didn't mention anything about it initially. He only added the fact it had been crashed/repaired and recorded with HPi when PH removed his ad and he no doubt he saw this threa

Come on Bibs, spill the beans. We all want to know what it went for. I assume its back in the UK? 

 

BTW, you should tell the new owner to hook up with Gordon Masson so they can get a 'first and last' photoshoot sorted.

I know Denis who was the original owner of the car and we had always said if one of us sells then we would offer the other one the car. 

He contacted me and asked if i was interested but i couldnt pull the cash together or i would have gone for it.

The first and last photoshoot would have looked pretty spectacular if they were both sitting inside my garage!

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The CAT D S4s is back up, now mentioning the damage, and the fact that pictures of the repair process are available. Better.

 

Some of these prices are scaring me - I'm getting jittery as I don't wanna end up seeing Esprits priced like Panteras...just waaaaay outta my price range (The latter are getting rarer and rarer and even dogs fetch like 55-60,000 pounds when I find 'em...)

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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That's more like it! :)

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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As this thread has turned from an esprit prices thread to whats going on with that s4s..here is my 2penith worth. Slate me if you will...

Dave (changes) has a lifetime of experience within and outside of the motor insurance industry. Without blowing anyones trumpet I dare say from my experience his Experience (with a capital E ) is capital and on the money without question.

We all know the car and it was a lovely example..looked good next to my S4 on the esprit timeline last year! However, I'll stand up and say that the person selling the vehicle post repair is not dishonest or attempting to hide any truths. He has DELIBERATELY catalogued all stages of the repair on the vehicle in question to show how un-serious the repair was. On other notes he has also gone the extra mile and addressed a few other items on the vehicle, returning its interior trim to standard spec, replacing the body seals on the arch trims etc and all fastenings are stainless. Effort has been put in to the repair and indeed the rest of the car to ensure that it is a good example all over.

with regards a comment above someone said that they would not touch a repaired car or esprit..well a good friend of mine ownes a cat d esprit and quite frankly when I did all the major service work on it a year ago I found it to be in far better condition than a lot of other esprits ive seen that have never been subject to any such repairs.

the short of it is, whilst the original add wasnt as detailed as it should have been and has now been correctly amended, the in depth details of it are recorded and openly displayed in other media.

the seller does have an "open door" policy should anyone want to go and see not just this but any other vehicle..

As I said at the start..slate me as you want. Just my opinion...

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He has changed the ad, it didn't mention anything about it initially. He only added the fact it had been crashed/repaired and recorded with HPi when PH removed his ad and he no doubt he saw this thread on here. The first ad was so 'un-detailed' it didn't mention anything about the cars recent history at all... I'm struggling with a better description of 'dishonest' & 'hiding the truth' but as I've mentioned on this thread it's a good repair job and good that he's coming clean now, 

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Theres only so much you can put in an add however it is fully photographed and even videoed before during and after for anyone to see..adds been changed now yes. The seller is an avid esprit fan and recognises this one as a nice example that should never have been written off for such minor damage. .as such extra work has been done to the car which warranted the extra mile which neccasarily didnt need doing in order to sell on. As I said..open door policy..which is rare these days in a lot of circles relating to specialist vehicles. However, stigma on cars sticks like shit. If it was priced a little lower the issue would not be so hot and would be taken into account as part of its pricing. BUT it really shouldnt have the stigma of cat d attached to it and thats the truth

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I agree, I thought it was absurd too however he could have had the repair work tattooed on his arse for the good it did first off when he didn't mention any of it at all. 

 

Sorry mate, spin it how you like it would appear he's tried to keep it schtum, been rumbled and is now ante-ing up the truth. Trouble is, Cat D cars are worth less, there are no two ways about it.

 

I'm aware of what he paid for the salvage car and have a very good estimate of how much it would cost to repair therefore his margin and he's not doing anyone any favours with this sale. I appreciate he's a business and I assume does this for money, there's nothing wrong with that but with that comes a responsibility to be honest with people or risk something like this thread if he's not. 

 

Damage is done IMO. If he'd been honest in the first place and priced the car accordingly it would more than likely have sold by now. As it is, he's asking top dollar for a repaired car that's on the hit list and as nice as he may be, he's comes across as a dishonest trader.

 

Just to share my own experience, not that's it's needed but my SE was considered a Cat D a year after it was built. That means it needed repair work more than likely over £30/35k so a decent off in anyone's book. Did I care, no? Did I pay full price, no. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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From Trading Standards:

 

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 prohibits commercial practices that are unfair to consumers. If a trader misleads you or engages in an aggressive commercial practice and you make a decision to purchase a vehicle which you would not otherwise have done, the trader may be in breach of the regulations. For example, a trader may fail to inform you that the vehicle has previously been accident damaged or may claim it is 'sold as seen' to avoid their responsibilities to you. If you have been misled,report it to Citizens Advice for investigation by trading standards. Guarantees and warranties are in addition to the statutory rights you have under theSale of Goods Act 1979.

 

Had he sold the car from the initial ad, he'd have been breaking the law and got himself in a pickle with a TS investigation. From that example, it's his responsibility to inform a customer of an accident damaged vehicle.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Oh, and PS if the guy is a big fella who tows wakeboarders I've met him and thought he was a great guy. It's nothing personal but we're a Lotus owners club and our first priority is to our members and indeed potential members. No-one would buy that car for that price and be happy a year down the line if they found out it was previously written off and they could have bought clean title cars for the same (or indeed a chunky amount less) money. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Well..its the age old industry problem and thats about it. Its not worth arguing over particulars between anyone. However said, anyone who was interested in the car from the initial add would have access to all repair details photos etc..BUT as I said price seems to be the hot topic. Drop it 5k and its a good buy. Still the same car though. Its all about perception and that is the big problem we have with the Esprit. Its hard work to change people's perception about our cars in terms of cost, reliability and how difficult they are to work on. As such they suffer.

The cars are reasonably priced..most of the time. I find the overpriced ones are usually In need of a lot of work that is typical of the esprit..ie a ford focus havin had a major service 1500 miles ago but that was 3 yrs ago doesnt ring any bells with most folk.on an esprit it should say overdue and needs doing again. Yet those who are selling say its fine. Its not. Simple.

the parts availablity isnt bad really if you think about it for a specialist car. Prices are not bad either on common used items.

In terms of working on them. There is nothing that is actually difficult if you apply yourself correctly and DONT CUT CORNERS.

there are a lot of cars out there that would not be in existence if the owners hadnt looked past the initial stigma attached to the issue.. I know a few as do we all. If a job is done correctly and to top standard there should be no question on it and it should not affect desirability or value. Engine rebuilds are attractive if done to top standards. .even if it threw a conrod or cracked a liner to cause it.

now these things I feel are the real issues facing the esprit and its value. Its all about the image and its got the looks but too many years being dogged by other owners poor ownership or other peoples view of the ownership of the car have kept it below the radar of the true appreciation. But times are changing and there moving towards owners who can look past the initial issues and realise that the only stigma or dogma is that with which you place yourself upon any given esprit.

As this thread started off about esprit prices it should move back to it..and be open and honest whether your selling buying owning..the time of the Esprit is going to come to fruition within the next decade securely and the next generation of owners. .ie us..will help the next generation of owners or potential admirers with the right information and facts as opposed to a lot of ingrained rubbish that is now slowly being combated..

My fish fingers are now ready so ill be busy appreciating those

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Thanks for sticking your neck out about this Bibs - it's nice knowing that any kind of shady behaviour won't be tolerated within the community, whatever the underlying intentions may be (good or bad...)

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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The cars are reasonably priced..most of the time. I find the overpriced ones are usually In need of a lot of work that is typical of the esprit..ie a ford focus havin had a major service 1500 miles ago but that was 3 yrs ago doesnt ring any bells with most folk.on an esprit it should say overdue and needs doing again. Yet those who are selling say its fine. Its not. Simple.

In terms of working on them. There is nothing that is actually difficult if you apply yourself correctly and DONT CUT CORNERS.

- Truer words were never spoken. I've lost count of the number of ads I've seen boasting cambelt changes that were done 5 years "but only 500 miles!" ago.

 

 

What's more I've personally burned myself twice by buying cheap parts. Never again.

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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I wouldn't be shy of a cat d car when it's priced appropriately, the Mrs is after a Nissan 350z once settled back into work after maternity leave, I've been watching them for a while and alot of them tend to loose the rear end and damage the rear quarter that renders them cat D in most caseS if recorded. As long as the repairs good and proper you can pick up one for £5000 compared to an £8000 equivalent with out the cat d, it doesn't mean it's not been damaged if it's not recorded of course.

Ive had two cat d cars in the past (10-14 years ago) and didn't have any issues with insurance back then, I've heard Cat C's carry an insurance premium and one fella I know had to go fir Vic check, Mot and an engineers report to get insurance.

If cat d's now carry that insurance stigma I'll tread carefully if she actually goes ahead to try get one.

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Yeah, but if they've been 'battered' they should say so on the packet and be cheaper.. :getmecoat:

breadcrumbs for me bazza..left them in the oven a bit too long but they wernt a total write off...*sniggers*

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I wouldn't be shy of a cat d car when it's priced appropriately, the Mrs is after a Nissan 350z once settled back into work after maternity leave, I've been watching them for a while and alot of them tend to loose the rear end and damage the rear quarter that renders them cat D in most caseS if recorded. As long as the repairs good and proper you can pick up one for £5000 compared to an £8000 equivalent with out the cat d, it doesn't mean it's not been damaged if it's not recorded of course.

Ive had two cat d cars in the past (10-14 years ago) and didn't have any issues with insurance back then, I've heard Cat C's carry an insurance premium and one fella I know had to go fir Vic check, Mot and an engineers report to get insurance.

If cat d's now carry that insurance stigma I'll tread carefully if she actually goes ahead to try get one.

I currently own a cat D and as far as I'm aware you don't even need to tell the insurance company if it's a C or D but you do for an A or B.

 

Paul.

Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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so getting back to the prices, i think I have to sell my esprit se high wing due to my fused spine.what sort of money should I be asking for it.

 

its got 72k miles well serviced, just had cam belt done (300 miles ago)  full tax, mot till oct and in canny condition for 21

 

cheers martin

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There's a high wing for sale for £36k too! Err, low miles indeed but £36k?! 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I'm thinking 30 is fair for the Peter Parker HW - it's pristine.

Recently saw a red HW go for about 8500 quid on eBay, bit lower miles than 72 but with the usual wear and tear. However given the recent hikes I guess 12 asking getting 10-11? (Please don't hate me if you feel it's way too little!)

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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I currently own a cat D and as far as I'm aware you don't even need to tell the insurance company if it's a C or D but you do for an A or B.

 

Paul.

Sorry to return to this again, BUT,  Your insurance may well ask you if it is a cat C or D on a new policy

as standard procedure now. If so you need to declare it. This will not influence what you pay but will

reflect in how they value it..

If you have a cat C or D car it is always worth having an Engineers report to submit on the quality of

repair to quantify  your cars true value..

A cat A or B is uninsurable now, as they should all be broken for parts. If you try to register one the DVLA

will refuse the application and start investigation into the vehicle.... This situation should not arise as they 

should only be sold to licensed salvage breakers by the insurance companies...

I just thought it should be made clear...   

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