Gearbox Noise

[davetoff]

Hi All,

 

It's been a long time since I posted something on here as the Old girl has been sitting neglected on my drive for the past 6-8 months. With the nice weather I thought I ought to clean her out and try and fix somethings that have been bugging me for most of those 6-8 months, one of them is that the transaxle is making a whining sound at around 3000-3500 rev in any gear. Does anyone think that this is just a bearing going or something more sinister?

 

Oil level is between 2.5L and 3.0L

Oil is MT-90

Clutch is fairly new (however it has been "stuck on" a couple of times, which has meant I've had to bump it to break the sticking, by turning it over with the ignition. I now know that this was probably the reason for the noise in the first place, hindsight is an exact science!)

 

Thoughts much appreciated.

 

David

[Bibs]

Sounds like a rusty release bearing to me. The noise will go I think in time. 

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, release bearing can only be heard when engaged. If not engaged, the release bearing stands still.

 

Most likely ring and pinion

[davetoff]

So fairly cheap then...........ring and pinion you can pick up anywhere.........er right?

[jonwat]

My first S3 Esprit had a slight transmission whine between fifty and fifty five so, on the advise of a Lotus mechanic, I poured in a can of Wynne's transmission oil additive which silenced it as well as making the gear changes a little smoother.

Worth a try : http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_193171_langId_-1_categoryId_255220

[molemot]

Talk to Harry, Dave....he's the man with the parts!!! I would caution you to check other things first; I did a gearbox overhaul for a dreadful noise that turned out to be a rear wheel bearing......(!)

[Roger 912]

I have a similar problem but mine is on 4th and fifth gear on acceleration and cruising. On deceleration the gearbox is quiet. I shall try some of the Wynne's stuff and see what happens first off before going the strip down route. The car has only completed 84 000 kms (50 000 miles) so I am surprised to hear the noise.

 

Interestingly enough I had exactly the same noise on my Citroen SM, which is the same gearbox. Must be a weak point.

[jonwat]

The car has only completed 84 000 kms (50 000 miles) so I am surprised to hear the noise.

 

Maybe it has been run with less than the required amount or incorrect grade oil in it at some time??

[davetoff]

So better late than never, I've hauled the gearbox out of the car and first thing I noticed was that the first motion shaft was sliding out of the box. The circlip must have either slipped off or broken. I checked the crank in the engine and low and behold there is some minor scrapping on it. This I feel was the cause of the noise at 3000-3500 revs. My question is how easy is it to replace this circlip, or do I need to send it off to be installed?

I suppose this needs to be a warning to others.....the reason why this happened was because the clutch had stuck to the flywheel through rusting over time. In order to break the connection between these parts I put the car in gear then turned the engine over. It worked but broke the circlip instead. Do not try this method in future,,,,,

Edited August 31, 2016 by davetoff

[Chillidoggy]

Are you sure MT90 is the correct oil for your gearbox?

I thought it had to be Castrol TAF-X 75W/90?

[davetoff]

2 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

Are you sure MT90 is the correct oil for your gearbox?

I thought it had to be Castrol TAF-X 75W/90?

Yep absolutely sure...

 

[Chillidoggy]

45 minutes ago, davetoff said:

Yep absolutely sure...

 

TAF must be for the later boxes, then? Not that it helps with your problem, but I did wonder.

[davetoff]

I believe that TAF can be used on these Citroen boxes too. There is lots of information on the site with regards to this, I'll see if I can find the link for you. 

[Chillidoggy]

I just did a search, and it seems Castrol TAF has now been superseded by a fully-synthetic Castrol Syntrans, same 75W/90 spec, though.

[davetoff]

That doesn't sound good, I thought that the fully synthetic part is the part that plays havoc with your seals, certainly in the older boxes anyway. I could be wrong and am happy to bow to more knowledgeable opinions on this subject, for which there are many  

[Chillidoggy]

In that case, it's a good job I have a stock of TAF!

[Barrykearley]

I find stopping it making a bid for freedom from the box being a challenge !!

[davetoff]

A little more information as I delve a little deeper, managed to crack open the bell housing to reveal a very rusty primary shaft. Cleaning it up I realised that this wasn't the shaft rusting but what was left of the circlip. I cleaned everything up, replaced the circlip with a upgraded one I bought from Harry, and all looks well with life once more.

I then thought it would be a good idea to change the bearings and seals whilst I have the transmission all bare. Started on the output shafts but quickly came across the usual "no tool will do the trick, but a lotus tool"! Does anyone know the large nut size in the output shafts so that I can buy a box spanner to suit? Also does anyone know, will I need an extended extractor to remove the bearing, if so what size will I need? Help once again very appreciated...

D

[giorgio67]

Nut size is 46mm, I have modified my extractor for the job, a long tool as required is very expensive and you will use it one time in your life...

 

[davetoff]

Thanks Giorgio for the picture and info. I'll have to recreate that tool when I get the time, which at the moment seems like a long way off!!!

[tkathulevej]

On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2014 at 13:45, Roger 912 said:

I have a similar problem but mine is on 4th and fifth gear on acceleration and cruising. On deceleration the gearbox is quiet. I shall try some of the Wynne's stuff and see what happens first off before going the strip down route. The car has only completed 84 000 kms (50 000 miles) so I am surprised to hear the noise.

 

Interestingly enough I had exactly the same noise on my Citroen SM, which is the same gearbox. Must be a weak point.

Hi Roger,

Did you ever find the reason for these symptoms ?

I've got exactly the same on my '78 NA Esprit. One or both rear end double ball bearings suspected….

Actually it seems from the drawings in the workshop manual, that it would be possible to pull and replace those bearings from the rear end of the gearbox, even without removing it from the car (provided one has the special tool for loosening the speedo-drive, and figure a way to pull the bearings). Has anyone tried?

 

/tka 

 

 

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, yes that should be possible. At least in the Citroen SM. Not sure if you have enough room in the Esprit.

 

cheers,

 

 

[tkathulevej]

Okay, thanks Harry ☺

The room will sure be there also on the Esprit. Nothing in the way,  when  exhaust muffler is away. - Now just need to determine whether they are the root cause in fact . Like Roger I've noise in 4th and 5th gear (maybe very slight in 3rd too ), and I image load on rear end bearings must increase at increasing gear. Little strange though there is most noise at swallow cruise,  less at acceleration and nothing at all at decceleration. .. 😞

/tka

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, imho the problem is the crown wheel and pinion. 95 out of 100 is making the noise. You might know the Esprit gearbox runs in opposite direction than in the Citroen SM.

The cwp spiral is left, for Esprit on wrong side. I have new made cwp spiral right. Perfect quality.

 

cheers,

 

 

[tkathulevej]

Wow, that's really nice  (...probably somewhat above my budget too, I'm afraid😯)

...would expect CWP-noise to depend solely on speed, not on which gear you're in ?

 

/tka