Chassis alignment, I am being finickity?

[CharlieCroker]

Look at this photo, does the rear wheel look off center? I know that the car has had a chassis swap a few years ago and I was wondering if it is possible to put the body shell back on the chassis off kilter? 

 

[andydclements]

I think it does look a little off, I haven't worked on an Elite/ Eclat but would hope that it's difficult to move the body by one to two inches along the chassis, which is what appears to be the case as the front wheel also looks a bit forward in the arch.

 

Compare it to this and it does appear to be incorrect

 

[CharlieCroker]

Cheers guys, I thought so. I had in mind what you suggest Buddsy, slotting the holes and moving it forward, another difficult job to add to the list that is building fast. Anyone got a picture of the chassis to body fixing points? 

[Dunc]

I'm gonna break with the consensus.

 

I think you are worrying over nothing. They are hand made cars from the 70's and are all a bit out of kilter. Mine is similar and it is an S2 which is on its original chassis - I hummed and hawed about possible wheel arch repair after a smash, before taking a look at others and finding that quite a lot of them don't have perfect wheel in arch alignment.

 

Once you've got it running, I'd get the wheel alignment checked, and if all 4 of them are pointing in the right direction, and its not fouling the body, I wouldn't worry any further.

 

On the front, the anti roll bar acts as a limiter of fore/aft movement under braking. Gubbed bushes at the lower wishbone/roll bar junction allows the car to splay its feet a bit and wander a little under breaking, which is exacerbated if the rest of the front suspension also has some slop. If both sides are evenly worn, it won't necessarily manifest itself in pulling to one side when you stop if it splays its wheels evenly.

 

If the bushes are bad, the front wheel can appear out of line with the arch depending on if its been stopped on its brakes. Your picture above also shows you have a bit of right hand lock on, which makes it look like it is out of line at the front. On the back, I wouldn't worry about it unduly.

[CharlieCroker]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated and well noted that these are hand made cars of over 30 years old. I will look into moving it forward a touch but if it proves to be a massive job then it will stay as is. Also good point regarding bushes, on this car I do believe they are past their sell by date and I do want to change them. 

[slewthy]

try a centred photo over each wheel - is this partly perspective too?

[Loose Cannon]

Is the other side the same? The front wheels look tad forward too, but not to the same extent which is odd - they could do with straightening up to tell completely

[CharlieCroker]

try a centred photo over each wheel - is this partly perspective too?

 

Tried that, it was obvious that it is definitely pissed some what. 

Is the other side the same? The front wheels look tad forward too, but not to the same extent which is odd - they could do with straightening up to tell completely

 

Not 100% sure yet, that photo was taken while the brakes had frozen and I haven't been able to seen the other side as yet but my feeling is something is off kilter. 

[Herc]

I'm with Dunc on this.   I'd have a really good look at the suspension before doing anything else, especially the trailing arms which do fail.  That matters to the handling anyway, which is the most beautiful part of these cars.

 

Herc

[mat grant]

On my excel chassis'd eclat the wheels are 10mm nearer the front of the arch than the rear of the arch. It all clears so i'm not too bothered. In the Lotus factory manual it says the bolts are tightened front to back when the body is put on and are via bobbins, the chassis bolts in front of the rear seats are drilled AFTER the car is put together, ie even lotus couldn't guarantee the front to back alignment.

 

So I agree with dunc, if it's all bolted up and is on securely and none of the bobbins are damaged, I wouldn't worry as long as there are no clearance/fouling issues.

 

Mat.

[Loose Cannon]

Is it a function of the suspension being a tad high? If it were lower like in the S2 picture the wheel would be more central.

 

It would still bug the life out of me though!

[slewthy]

Yes, it would bug me too.

Last month I removed the front spring rubbers to lower the front of my car by 1-2cm. Tiny effect visually, big psychologically.

[CharlieCroker]

It's funny how the little things bug us, I will certainly try my utmost to get the alignment correct, only needs 2-3cm forward and I think it would look 1000 times better.

[mikeeech]

I would struggle to see how the body got so far out of alignment unless it's a molding hting at which point it's always been that way. take a look at the rear suspension turret. when I removed my body there was a bolt in the rear turrent that pointed toward the back of the car with the head in the boot just below the tank. The body Therefore aligns to the turrets at the back. I will post a photo of the body section tomorrow if this will help.

 

Could it be that the car has been rear ended at some point in the past and the rear section replaced? rear body sections were availible for just such an event. Check for evidence underneath.

[CharlieCroker]

Thanks for the advice, funnily enough I checked the the front today (engine is out) and the bolts look 100% correctly aligned so your rear end shunt theory may well have some substance to it even though the car comes up as 'no recorded damamge' on the hpi check, I will double check tomorrow. Any photos you have will be greatly appreciated. What ever the case I will have to correct this either with tweaks to the shell to ease it forward. One thing I would say though is the front wheels do not sit correctly either (they sit forward in the arch) so would suggest that the entire body is to far back on the chassis, hence my original question 'is it possible to put the shell back on off kilter after a chassis swap?'. Thanks Charlie :-)

[cdfps]

Somewhere I read... ( I know, not a good start ) ... that replacement frames came without the mounting holes drilled.

 

If someone got one of those frames they could have drilled the holes incorrectly when mounting it.

 

I don't know where the holes are supposed to be, but I would think it would show up on the rear shock tower / suspension turret like Mikeech said above.  On my car the rear shock towers were completely in contact with the body (all the way back) and the bolts didn't have any washers or whatever.  With your chassis over an inch forward I would think if the chassis was the cause, there would be a gap between the rear shock towers and the mounting bolts in the body next to the gas tanks.

 

Best,

 

Ross

Edited March 28, 2014 by cdfps

[CharlieCroker]

Could it be that the car has been rear ended at some point in the past and the rear section replaced? rear body sections were availible for just such an event. Check for evidence underneath.

You Sir are a detective in the making. Ok so after all the discussion on here regarding the pissed alignment and after this post from mike I double checked everything today and it is now evident that a new body section has been grafted in to the shell. With the rear seats out you can see where the new section has been glassed in. I'm a bit disappointed as I thought the car was straight but such is life. So my plans have been thwarted even before I could get the clutch in. Question is do I source a new body shell, of which I know where one is or do I go to my plan b? I always had it in the back of my mind should such an event arise I could go down the retro modified scene which seems to be catching on fast. After all it was my messing about in photoshop that noticed the miss alignment. If I go retro modified I wouldn't feel to bad to play with this car and accept that resell will be to the modified scene and not to lotus fans. Tough decision but like I said I had it in the back of my mind to try something different with this car. Charlie.

[mikeeech]

Charlie...

since the engine is out the body is only a few bolts and a days work away!!! go on you know you want to..

Swapping body shells over would be a major job though to be honest since you will uncover alot more stuff to do while your there! and you would only get the shell (albeit at a very low price since they are a pig to get rid of) so dash and wiring loom would have to come out, doors, glass , respray...

 

if you go down the retro modified route you could do worse than to widen the arches and fit 17inch wheels IMO! at least you would get the tyres for it. that would save you doing a new shell!

 

Saw this on you tube a while ago and what they did to the europa really worked well and the arch widening looked easy and cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NvRn1h3ITU

[CharlieCroker]

I have to say that foose has been a massive influence in the way he simplifies a design on me for many years and I have followed various other designers through the years, boyd, barris ect ect nd now the fast n loud boys. So I am heading towards the modified look and will post a photoshopped image of what I plan on monday. For me the Elite is begging out for a subtle tweak, it's such a cool design it just needs a little fettling here and there. I've already removed half the chassis nuts and will aim to bring tge body forward a touch although there will have to be some shell mods to take it forward, I can see a major headache where the front v of the chassis meets the body, not sure what to do here yet but some surgery will be required. The plot thickens!

[mat grant]

the S2 elite in the 2nd photo appears to have the rear wheel too far toward the rear of the arch.....

[slewthy]

Maybe that one had a front end shunt..............

[USAndretti42]

When I changed the chassis on my Élan plus 2 I had to drill and tap the mounting holes in my new chassis. The body had bobbins moulded into the fibreglass so you can't just file out the holes. However, you might be able to move the body back enough to let you drill and tap new holes in the chassis if you can cope with the repaired body.

[CharlieCroker]

Need to ask a few questions. I have now removed all the bolts holding the body in place among other jobs and today wanted to see if the body would lift. Lift it does however after about 2cm of lift the chassis starts to lift also, wtf?! So any ideas as to what it could be snagging on? Thanks, Charlie :-)

[mikeeech]

the power steering pipes, steering column, brake pipes, handbrake, clutch cable.

 

The power steering pipe got me but I was several feet above the chassis when I noticed and I had no option than to cut it.

 

So your going for a full body off then?

[Loose Cannon]

For a flared arch look that is still "lotus" what about some Excel style box flares?