Thinking of Buying

[mike-c]

Hi there. I'm going to go and take a look at a 1985 Esprit Turbo. I'm finding it a little difficult to value the car so what sort of price range do you folks think that a Turbo should be fetching at the moment? For the sake of argument assume good condition.

 

I'm keen to buy a car that is an appreciating classic. What do you guys think are the prospects for the Turbo alongside the other Esprits?

 

Also I suspect that the car needs a turbo rebuld and a new cambelt. What sort of price would you expect to pay for these?

 

Finally does anyone know of a good Lotus indie in or near Edinburgh?

 

I'm not going to view the car until tomorrow so I have the night to sleep on the idea. I probably need a Lotus Esprit like I need a hole in the head as I've currently got a Porsche 928 and a 944 to throw my money at.

 

Cheers,

Mike

 

[mdw]

Depends how far into it you want to go.  Its better if its been used than than left standing.  Probably best to take someone who has gutted one and knows the ins and outs of them and you cans get to lots of money in parts alone without trying too hard.  If you can say which car it is there is a good chance someone on here has owned it or know of it.

[markw996]

Hi Mike, welcome to the forum.

 

Although I can't help with your question, I used to own a 928, and currently own a 944.

I recently bought an Esprit (albeit a more modern one than the one you're looking at).

 

The Esprit is a different animal and I would highly recommend one!

[ramjet]

Welcome to TLF Mike.

 

You should duck over to the Introductions area and say hi in there as well.

[rizla603104]

Good luck with your visit. I would highly recommend an independent inspection as it is so easy to not go in with your eyes open. If you are going to maintain it yourself - your contingency pot can be smaller than these who rely on a garage. But don't be fooled by her good looks. If she is a non-runner don't pay runner money. A quality car will command £8k to £12k and increasing. My advice - take your budget - put a couple of thousand into the bank for contingency and buy the best you can afford. Taking your first step into the Esprit forum with a non-runner - may leave a bad taste in your mouth.

[rocket63]

I think you will find the prices wide ranging currently. Get yourself informed for the watchouts, but purchase the best you can afford. Prices are starting to trend upwards and I dont think you will find a standard price range.

[mike-c]

Thanks for the replies. Went to see the car today. Here is the car here. It's unlikley I'll be buying it.

 

It's had a paint job but I would say not the best, it didn't make you think wow and I also noticed a small amount of bubbling. Possibly a good polish and wax would get it looking acceptable paint wise. The door frames around the window were both fairly rusty and I think you would want to replace them. Someone has put superglue in both of the door locks which has dribbled down both doors. The drivers lock works but the passenger lock is broken. The driver door seal has been replace but didn't look a very good fit, the passenger door seal is only half done because he ran out of seal. The bonding around all of the windows looked like it was dried out and cracking. Also the alloys probably need a refurb as they looked a bit scabby

 

The interior probably just needs a really good clean. It smelled pretty musty and the roof lining looked a bit mouldy. I didn't bother with the electrical as by this point I had pretty much made up my mind. I know the ariel didn't work and also the heater didn't work. It just made a loud noise.

 

We went for a drive and I let him drive. He started the car up and I'm pretty sure he was feathering the pedal to keep it running. The idle jumped all over the place. The car was in a small harbour village called St Monans. He seemed to want to drive very fast through the small streets and I have a feeling he was trying to keep the revs up. Out on the motor way he opened it up and I will say acceleration was fast. I did notice the boost gauge was flickering a bit. As the heater was broken and the weather was bad (misty and damp) the car windows steamed up quickly. I have to say I don’t feel very safe driving at 100 mph down damp misty country roads in a 35 year old car that was creaking but the breaks worked and we survived. Once we got back I asked him to leave the car idling for a bit. As I suspected the idle was hunting a bit and seemed close to stalling. There was also quite a bit of backfiring/popping both at idle and under load. I thought the exhaust also needed looking at but am not 100% sure as it was running a bit rough anyway. It might be that it just needs fresh gas (a year old) and a tune up or it could be something worse.

 

I certainly wouldn't buy it without an inspection and I'm not sure what I saw warrants me spending money on one.

[mdw]

If it has had  the clutch, box and full engine rebuild that will save you £6-7k however its quite easy to say goodbye to another £5-6k on parts alone depending on how far you want to go.  Not trying to put you off but go into it eyes open.  If you do it yourself you will at least know it inside out and can sort out the usual list of problems and previous owners / mechanics bodges.

Edited March 30, 2014 by mdw

[temple]

If musky and steaming up, and near the coast ,  harbour village???

 

flood damage perhaps  

[Mark Blanchard]

My guess is that car needs another few grand spending on it.  Is he open to a cheeky offer?

[espritmania]

Sounds like a knightmare,aviod it.

[hopo]

Don't do it... you were obviously not blown away.

[mike-c]

So I find myself this morning still thinking about the car.

 

With the window frames changed and a good clean inside and out and assuming you could polish/tcut the glue off then I think the car would be looking ok. Window frames seem to be £250 + vat a side. 

 

Rough running and popping. Perhaps just new fuel and a tune up? Or something gone wrong with the rebuild.

 

What is lotusbits rep like for engine rebuilds? I did a search and they seemed to have a good rep. 

 

I spoke with lotusbits and they advised the turbo needs rebuilt as it is leaking oil in the plenum? I don't know a lot about turbos. Would running it in this condition damage the engine or just reduce performance?

 

I reckon the cambelt needs changed. The car has only done 2000 miles since rebuild but that was a couple of years ago. lotusbits say 4 years and the owner says two. I would need to see the receipts. 

 

What about the chassis on these cars. Do they rust? I see they are galvanised but I'm not sure that means much after almost 30 years. 

 

Heater is knackered. I'm thinking that could be a PITA. Dash out etc.

 

If I did want an inspection then who in Scotland could I take it to? I know of Murray motors in Edinburgh but I'm not sure the owner would go for that as its a fair distance. It would I guess prove the car could make the distance without breaking down.

[rizla603104]

Honestly? I would recommend you either:

 

get a 50% reduction in the price

find another example that is running, has an MOT and Tax and a huge wedge of bills.

 

I would always recommend looking at more than one to get an idea of what you can expect for the money. Many of us speak from our own experience - and it won't take you long to search the forums to find someone who has fallen in love and then regretted every minute of ownership.

 

Those of us who own Esprit appreciate that is can (even with a good example) be loaded with large bills for a long time to get the car into good shape.

[mike-c]

get a 50% reduction in the price

 

I would agree with that but I'm not sure the owner would. He's seen the prices that these cars seem to be getting on ebay at the moment. A completely knackered one seems to be 6k + based on the few sales i've seen. If I was going to make an offer it would be for less than what he is asking. 

 

 running, has an MOT and Tax and a huge wedge of bills.

 

The car is running (rough) and has a new MOT, no tax, and does I believe have a huge wedge of bills although admittedly i didn't go through them. I did speak to Lotusbits and they confirmed the engine rebuild. The owner claims also a new clutch and a gearbox rebuild. I would need to check the receipts. I could see the slave cylinder had been changed. 

 

So is there any indies in Scotland who could do an inspection?

[PhilW]

Mike

Your first post said rusty window frames.  Wrong.  They are aluminium/alloy.  They became steel for the Stevens X180.  Make sure they are correct ones and not from a Stevens.  Don't know if the shape is the same.  Alloy frames are obsolete.

Be careful. Sounds like it could be a nightmare

[espritmania]

Price now reduced on Autotrader.

[Sparky]

Certainly seems to need a heater matrix, and that in itself is a monster. Add C service, turbo, frames, alloys, locks, seals. And then whatever an inspection turns up. Run for the hills.

[robington]

Mike,  unless you really want a car to do loads of work on you are best to go with your instincts and leave it alone. Mind you, at £7k that's not going to be on the market for long I think.

[TBD]

I would think every Esprit is worth saving and restoring to best possible condition. It's just a shame to see some of these go down the bin.

Maybe you can find a fair value price that makes the adventure worthwhile for you.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Think the auto trader car looks like a good deal and less mileage, not sure what TLC it needs but worth a call. The other one is Scotland seems best avoided at that price as could easily be a £13k to £15k car in no time.

As Rob says the auto trader turbo is not going to be around long!

Dave

[rizla603104]

I don't think it is the same car as the one Mike is talking about? Mind you - there is a green Turbo on Autotrader too.... could be worth having a look at?

[mike-c]

The autotrader one is not the same one. 169 miles away so perhaps worth a visit. However it hasn't been driven for several years so I’m not sure that’s any better. The Scotland one has had a lot of work recently:

 

Engine rebuild - confirmed by lotusbits on the phone

Petrol tanks - confirmed by lotusbits on the phone

Gearbox rebuild

Respray

Clutch

Recent tryres

Mot work

 

But it does need more doing. According to lotusbits the Turbo is leaking oil. The window frames don't sound like a massive deal and they are what visually put me off the car from the go. Cambelt I would probably take a crack at myself. The belt hasn't done many miles but has been on there for over two years. The heater issue is not good but I could probably live with it for the summer then try and do something about it. The rough idle and popping was a bit worrying, but don't these cars need tuning properly? I also worry about rust on the chassis. I read they are galvanised so are not an issue but I've got a "galvanised" Porsche 944 which makes me think twice about that statement. Is this an unjustified concern?

 

If I could knock 2-3k off his price and the car proved to be reliable I could handle a bit of a rolling restoration. I can’t really afford to have it break down and out of action though as I have space for one car in the garage and I need to get the 928 off the road for a bit while I catch up with some maintenance on that in time for some camping trips I have planned.

[espritmania]

Are you desperate for an S3 turbo??

[dodge1979]

I wouldn't plan on doing this one as a rolling restoration.. that's a gaurentee to bite you in the backside and youll either spend too much time and money repairing on the go in bits and bobs and probably have to do several things over, or youll loose interest and enthusiasm as many others have done before. Youll need to plan to spend a couple of grand straight off just getting it running right and reliable..which takes time yourself or more cost for someone else to do..