free hit
counters
Porsche. Well built. - Lotus / Motoring / Cars Chat - The Lotus Forums - Lotus Community Partner #ForTheOwners Jump to content


IGNORED

Porsche. Well built.


Recommended Posts


Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Should have bought an Evora! :thumbsup:

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joking aside, you have to wonder what Lotus has to do to completely eradicate its present day undeserved reputation regarding build quality, when Porsche are still seen as being able to make a car properly despite significant evidence to the contrary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a lengthy debate on PH in response to the long term (well, 3 weeks) Evora ownership story. It seems to have degenerated into the old Porsche vs Lotus argument with many comments about the 'dire/dodgy/crap' Lotus build quality and this is why we should all buy a 911/Cayman/Boxster. I just don't get this, especially when Porsche owners seem to have so many serious problems. Anyhow, I posted the above video. Lets see what happens...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Always have to wonder if the person it's sabotaging their car for the attention and YouTube hits, or because they couldn't afford the car. A Tesla owner is trying to get his "lemon" bought back, had a fuse that kept blowing. Tesla noticed the front hood was always opened right before the fuse blew, so they put tamper proof tape on it, and the problem apparently went away...

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might have been made out of desperation but I think it's pretty smart of him to make a video, it seems to have worked too by the look of his update.

 

What's really unfair though is that because it's a Porsche most viewers will put this case down to a 'one-off'. If this video was about an Evora or any other Lotus it would be considered proof that all Lotus cars are built badly.

 

I think Lotus are doing all they reasonably can to address this, using Toyota engines is absolutely the right thing to do but then you get the badge snobs blathering on about 'Camry' engines and the like. The truth is, Lotus can't do anything to convince those who already have a prejudice against them. Those interested in the prestige and status of the Porsche badge will never get why anyone would want to buy a Lotus and seem to be irritated by the thought that someone could spend Porsche money on what they consider to be a 'plastic kit-car'.

 

Lotus can only hope to interest people who are more open-minded and who care more about driving dynamics than the sound the door makes. And the only way to convince them is to get them behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The comments on brand reputation and prejudice put me in mind of something I saw recently, perhaps in this forum but I don't remember the source.

 

So with advance apologies for some innocent plagarism I offer the protoypical magazine review of a new Porsche (or Corvette or other "prestige" marque):

" The new Porsche is perfect. Siginificant engineering work has corrected the many flaws of the pevious model, which was perfect."

Mike

'97 V8

'73 Europa TC

'10 Elise SC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I think my 24 year old Esprit holds together quite well. Just like a 24 year old Porsche or many other cars.

Oh well, they all need parts and maintenance to keep blasting around.

But the guy in this video, I think really got a monday-car or whatever. Shame on Porsche North America, not taking care of the customer and the brand reputation earlier on. Simple respect. There must be someone in the US with red ears having just had a phonecall from germany ;)   Like many other brands should do. If they (a brand) don't want the thing to last very long, just say so, so that we the customers know. Very simle.

I think much of this relates to the overcomplication of Electronics. Sorry, I seem to be a bit oldfashioned ;)

Glas I don't have too many features in my cars.

Actually, I have nothing against Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, Aston Martin, Maserati etc. But if they want us to keep their legend alive, the support us with spare parts, please. And it's fun to drive, because that is what matters.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think much of this relates to the overcomplication of Electronics.

 

 It very rarely has anything to do with electronics, these are inceridbly reliable today.

 

Just as in the case of this Porsche, where the real underlying issue seems to be a good old-fashioned water ingress problem. Only real problem with electronics is that they don't like to take a shower.  :getmecoat:  

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joking aside, you have to wonder what Lotus has to do to completely eradicate its present day undeserved reputation regarding build quality, when Porsche are still seen as being able to make a car properly despite significant evidence to the contrary.

I've had a couple of minor issues my car. (Headlight lens peeling, cruise control cutting out, rear light surrounds)

All resolved reasonably quickly with polite and effective communication. Lotus Customer Services in my brief experience are excellent unlike Porsche NA, that's utterly disgusting customer service. Time to share that video, he's obviously not complaining about nothing!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hah - the sound of the door of a 911 was much nicer when the cars had been more handbuild - so after 993 just another clunk.....

BUT WHo Cares? .....esp when you could buy a handbuild car that name starts with an E..........

So true, loved my old 964 as much as the Evora... The thunk of the door shutting, the slingshot 5 speed gearbox and the brutal power of that flat 6... A work colleague of mine has just spent £75k on a second hand one of those rather bling 991's... It's not as good as they used to make them. My 21 year old car still didn't rattle, the new ones do...

Like Porsche, Love Lotus.

My first Porsche... 964

post-15194-0-21746500-1399945775.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

was that the last aircooled?

 

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

 

Regarding Electronics, Yes, I think that there are so much Electronic equipment in many serious cars today, so that Water, heat and Cold plays up to make it unreliable.

Think of some selfigniting pugs, toyota's recall, and what have you not.

I have a friend WHO in hos own small car tunug Company (educated Electronics engineet), have seriously tuned and built fast vag cars. And it's mostly electrónics that fail.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

993.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

was that the last aircooled?

 

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

 

Regarding Electronics, Yes, I think that there are so much Electronic equipment in many serious cars today, so that Water, heat and Cold plays up to make it unreliable.

Think of some selfigniting pugs, toyota's recall, and what have you not.

I have a friend WHO in hos own small car tunug Company (educated Electronics engineet), have seriously tuned and built fast vag cars. And it's mostly electrónics that fail.

Despite all your prejudice cars have become so much more reliable over the last 20 years that nothing else compares.

Just compare ancient distributors and coils with modern systems, hassle-free fuel injection with multiple carb adjustment.

 

OK, maybe I'm not fully objective on this as an electrical engineer working on computers. But, I can fix almost any electronic  system but I'll never get a water hose to stop dripping. :help:  

If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I am Thomas, I am just reading in the newspaper etc. what happens from time to time.

I've had carb cars, motorcycles, early injectioned ones, and more modern injection types, and they have all been reliable ;)

 

But I do agree, that a mass produced modern Family car is way better than a 1950'ies italian or brit ditto. But that goes not only for Electronics, but for brakes, chassis, corrosion profing, Water profing and much more.

 

I grew up in a small street with nearly only brit bikes and cars (old style), and they were undergoing "service" of all kinds on a very regular basis.

 

Btw.. I've been working with designing and implementing computersystems from mainframe to pc's in the banking and arbitrage buisness since 1988 and my wife's a university educated electrical engineer too, later on teaching in this ;)  and my Brother have been designing Electronic weapon systems since 1990.

One of my friends have been seriously tuning vag cars for more than 15 years (Electronics engineer) and he told me of this from time to time. By tunig, i don't mean take a chip and stuff it into a socket on a 90 hp diesel, but a 650 hp and up level.  And the number or HP's is not the only factor, but reliability and hot/warm weather and more, is the real thing to overcome. For example he's been developing his own gearboxes, flowed exhausts, programming, wireing systems, cooling soloutions etc.

 

But to come back to the point:: I think it is embarrasing of Porsche na, not to have dealt in a better manner with the case mentioned above. It pretty much speaks for itself. I am sure, that Porsche in Germany would have had a Word to say in this case. They are normally serious people. i don't think that have changed recently.

But what I did notice is that some Companies have changed their spereparts policy from very good for many years, to nearly not a thing after 10 years of a model going out od production. Oh well, buy and throw away - reliability is mabye? not a factor any more?

 

For example, Ford chose (at least here in Denmark) not to sell bottom end parts (I think it was)any more for their fleet engine Fiesta, but only as a short block. No interest in making seperate spares, only change  a big part of the car (-engine). Not seen that before. I think economy and place of production also plays in here. Say, if an engine for a European car in made somewhere in the far East, and then breaks Down, it may be cheaper for the Company to just swap an engine, than to take it apart and find the fault in detail, repair it, and install it Again. Buy and throw away. With this in mind, I at least cannot be overly surprised, if a component for a car is designed to last only so long, not a long term performance.

And if a certain component should show to be well performing, sometimes a timer/counter is then built in to reduce life/performance. I am thinking of Canon printers for example.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Someone isn't happy! :lol:

 

10313358_252076381663578_480548604387651

  • Like 1

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Their cars may be well built, but lets be honest here, has anyone ever seen a happy Porsche driver? I haven't. They're always miserable-looking bastards.

 

When I'm out in my racing green pimp-mobile, with a giant grin on my face (been there 2 years now), I almost pity them, especially so when one of their ilk starts making assertions about the supposed unreliability of my Lotus.

 

Live well. It is the best revenge.

  • Like 1

Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...